Advanced iClone: Face Puppet Work in Progress


https://forum.reallusion.com/Topic292563.aspx
Print Topic | Close Window

By mtakerkart - 8 Years Ago
This guy is crazy!!! If we can have this with the upcoming facial mocap w00t


By Rampa - 8 Years Ago
3DTest continues to amaze! Smile

So, the previous ini editing was already so far beyond what setting morphs in 3DX could do. Now this has really shown the potential that the face puppet system already has.
By VirtualMedia - 8 Years Ago
rampa (7/28/2016)
3DTest continues to amaze! Smile

So, the previous ini editing was already so far beyond what setting morphs in 3DX could do. Now this has really shown the potential that the face puppet system already has.


The puppet tool has incredible potential, it just seems it has so many limits put on it for some reason?

If RL gave us the ability to import morphs sliders into IC that could be used in the puppet tool with the ability to set keys while using the puppet tool 'without the  3DX / create / port / click / drag / clip... work around' it would be an amazing facial animation tool. I truly hope they push it's potential on the next release.

It would also create another revenue stream in the RL marketplace for custom facial expressions / morph sliders.

Thanks again for pushing the boundaries 3DTest... Keep Pushing!
By TheOldBuffer - 8 Years Ago
Excellent work 3dtest.
By 3Dtest... - 8 Years Ago

Hi Folks, hi swOOOOOp, thanks for checking out the video and for your comments Smile

Respectfully, I'd like to make a few points:

* This isn't simply a reworking of *inis like those which I've already made available for download. Thing is, it's a reworking of the default morph data, with a lot of new morphs mixed in. As I say in the vid, there are licensing issues (mesh) - as well as development issues which RL would need to consider if this was to become genreally available to the user base. By development issues I mean the implications of a new and more powerful base morph set - particularly issues of conversion and backwards compatibility (which I've already taken into account, but without procedural tools many users may find difficult).

* subtle eye movements - sorry, I meant very subtle - as in, the way both bottom and top eyelids are affected by eyeball motion. This is demonstrated in the video - but you need to look closely. In terms of other motions - there are subtle neck as well as facial movements which are dependent on the capture resolution (and noise/ cleanup required) of the mocap system. Hence better use of the existing morph/bone approach can potentially provide a higher resolution, as well as quicker/ more convenient and cost-effective solution than conventional mocap.

* shoulders - yes, they do need work. Quite simply, the torso to arm front and back (pec/deltoid and trapezius) lower intersections (that's an anatomical way of describing armpits...) remain way too high, resulting in an unnatural base mesh whether static or animated. This is an important (and obvious) fix - the difficulty is in balancing vert positions with bone weights. It's doable (I've been doing it for a while on individual character meshes), and should be incorporated into the default.

* regarding importing other rigs/ using Max (or any other 3Dsoftware to redefine default controllers) - the issue is, this makes for a non-standard avatar. The ideal would be to solve all issues with the default mesh/ rig - so that all users could benefit - as well as reuse all previous models - and use animation data from previous models (only with the advantage of having a more powerful system). I'm saying this is generic stuff - as in, how to upgrade RL's tools and maintain backwards compatibility.

* progressing morphing - swOOOOOp's right: the workaround in the *inis is to use relative values and think in terms of speed ie how fast one morph will apply relative to another. This is encoded progressive morphing, and it's how I'm adjusting the morph blends to get the effects shown. I agree it's tedious work, but the results are rewarding - and tbh I can't imagine RL prodecuralizing this via the UI when there's so much else - and so many easier/ more obvious fixes to do - which will no doubt take preference.

Finally, the biggest frustration for me is not the lack of deep tooling to do this kind of thing (I've spent a lot of my 3d career doing this kind of generic remodelling), it's the fact that I keep coming up against unnecessarily closed areas of software, which limit the potential to improve quality. RL are quite unique in providing such limitations to an 'unlimited' 3D pipeline - but then I think that is because so much of the business focus is on content, rather than improving tooling and base datasets. This isn't a criticism - simply an observation: the fundamental issue for those of us who want iClone to realize the potential that we as users would like see is to get around the fact that it's potential is inherently limited - for business reasons. There's a conflict here: selling and protecting content for a closed source 'captive' game engine means necessarily limiting what users can put in - and take out of it. So when users (like me and many others!) really want to improve things, we find ourselves banging our heads against very carefully designed walls - you see ultimately, RL decide whether a new function will be implemented or not. And after all - even though we buy it - it is their software...! 

Mike (3Dtest)

By Rampa - 8 Years Ago
Yep! The "progressive" is already there! Every single morph has a percentage of zero to 100, and they can all be played at once, if desired.
By animagic - 8 Years Ago
3Dtest, thank you for showing your results and what is possible in iClone. I hope to see more of it in the future. I also hope you are not discouraged from posting. I believe most of us are interested and like to learn.
By 3Dtest... - 8 Years Ago
Animagic thanks, I appreciate your comment - and no, I'm not discouraged at all. Having been involved in open source for a few years, I'm pretty robust when it comes to forums. Certainly I'll keep posting on here if I feel I can make a positive contribution.
By sbaerman - 8 Years Ago
I love this... maybe RL should offer you a contracter status and they and you can sell the work as an additional plugin, so you and RL can make some money. TOGETHER....

Why don't we put this in feedback-tracker as a suggestion ?
By Lamias - 8 Years Ago
Thank you 3Dtest, for pushing beyond the boundaries of our knowledge! Smile
By mtakerkart - 8 Years Ago
Certainly I'll keep posting on here if I feel I can make a positive contribution.


Oooooooooh! Yes!!!! ;-)  I subscribe at your youtube channel  months ago but for this time I didn't resist to share on this forum .
It's really benefic for users and for RL team I suppose.
And it's the first time I understand because of your explanation choices of Reallusion development. Thank you.
By 3Dtest... - 8 Years Ago
Hi Marc, to be clear - any ideas I may express about how and why RL may be doing things are purely my personal opinion and interpretation based on my findings whilst working with their software, and my experience in the software industry. Whilst I hope my views may be of interest, they're really just my thoughts - and certainly shouldn't be taken as facts at all: really, any definitive clarification of either development or marketing strategy could only come from RL themselves. I'm just a user - a deeply interested and enthusiastic one perhaps - but in no way any authority on RL's particular policies at all.
By mtakerkart - 8 Years Ago
Yes , I understund that it is your own interpretation ;-)  Since I received my Neuron kit I'm not "disturbed" about the RL way.
I take what they sell and make things with it. :-)
By Rampa - 8 Years Ago
I just learned a couple new tricks watching tutorials on your channel 3DTest. I think it would be great for you to post more of them here as well. Smile
By 3Dtest... - 8 Years Ago

Rampa, I'll post the channel link so that folks can peruse if they wish.

The reason I'd be reluctant to post all the vids individually is that the comment threads often have (I hope!) useful further info - and potential questions already answered - which may be unnecessarily repeated here. Similarly, I often make use of the video descriptions to give additional detail, particularly for tutorials. Tbh this is one of the reasons I asked RL to stop posting my vids on their facebook - I believe many are incomplete without the descriptions and Q&As which follow - and simply seen as eye candy (on facebook) they become more of a marketing tool for the software - which is not my intention.

Anyway, here goes - my channel is here for anyone who's interested:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKtjihhZQ_qmxEmbBzxt-nQ

By 3Dtest... - 8 Years Ago

Thinking a bit more about what may be helpful/ indicate the potential of the existing software, this video may be of interest to folks who may not have seen it - this is a short piece of virtual 'acting' I produced before starting on the latest Face Puppet rework:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgoGCPnizyk

It uses my original profile *.ini files - available here (thanks to Rampa for requesting them, and to Reallusion for allowing me to freely distribute these modified files without licensing worries): https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1M4PylcPqMCQ1J5aXhCNTR6NFU

As well as the upgraded profiles, the example above also uses custom morphing for additional facial expressions - as well as cheek and neck movements. Tbh it was the realisation that my original profiles were still limited, and could be enhanced with new morphs - which started me off reworking Face Puppet more comprehensively. Now custom morphing on characters - which is surpisingly straightforward (and has endless possibilities, certainly not only for facial animation) - is described in my tutorial here, and I hope it might inspire folks to get creative Smile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9Lf6EwrJ9g

By 3Dtest... - 8 Years Ago
Hi All, fyi here's the latest test using my all-but-complete face puppet rework (I really could just keep polishing this, but I think it's pretty usable as it is) - again, more info in the comments thread.
Hopefully this shows just how far the existing FP can be pushed - though I'm sure it has even greater capabilities if developed correctly Smile

Cheers, Mike (3Dtest)

Hmm, now let's see if the 'embed' code works here - or if I'm missing something (not unusual for me...!)...Lol! guess I should've checked the buttons below - anyway, done )



By sbaerman - 8 Years Ago
Hi,

as mentioned on youtube. This is really amazing work. I hope RL will somehow get in touch with you and can collaborate, so we all will get the chance to participate in the great work you have done.
By pumeco - 8 Years Ago

I have no plans to use iClone6 to produce anything (as I'm waiting for iClone7), but there's still a chance I might use iClone 5.5 Pro.
I'm just about to rewatch the 3DTest's videos and download it, so I'm wondering, as it's based on ini files etc, would it work in iClone5.5 Pro as well?

Anyone tried doing that?


By pumeco - 8 Years Ago

Igonre that question, obviously it won't cause it's based on a CC avatar Tongue
Great channel, 3DTest!



By 45thdiv - 8 Years Ago
I'll have to take a look at the youtube channel when I get home.  Looks interesting.
By dante1st - 7 Years Ago
Will that Donald Trump head be something I can purchase? That's a really good 3D model I'd love to use in Character Creator.
By woody173 - 7 Years Ago
Wher can i get the AFP profiles from for iClone 6.5 seems like lots of people put stuff on youtube to show how it works but i cant find the files they start with so i can install them
By dante1st - 7 Years Ago
The link was in one of his video description sections. 
By daw3kay - 4 Years Ago

The advanced facial puppet zip download link is dead. Tried to get it again today because I lost the first download after my hard
drive crashed

By animagic - 4 Years Ago
The Advanced Facial Puppet features have been integrated in iClone and Character Creator, so there is no longer a need for it.