|
By ajm5050 - 9 Years Ago
|
So I've purchased a bunch of motion files a couple of years back and none of them seem to work properly with G6 characters. I'm assuming it probably has to do with the difference in bone structure between G5 and G6, but it's only a guess of course. The motions work perfectly fine with G5 characters, but when you apply them to G6 characters, then you see the chest protruding too forward, shoulder angled abnormally and just generally making the character look totally unnatural.
I use the "Edit Motion Layer" feature to correct the initial stands after applying the motion, but it's very time consuming and you can never manage to make the motions look as natural as they do on G5 characters. Is there a better way to use the pre-iClone 6 motion files on G6 characters? And does anyone know if Reallusion plans to update the motion files so they're compatible with the new characters as well? Thanks everyone for your help.
|
|
By Rampa - 9 Years Ago
|
All iMotions, regardless of generation, work on iC6 characters. There are slight differences in geometry between different generations, so you will need to do "tweaks" now-and-again.
The changes for one should be the same for all of them, so just teak the character as your doing on frame 1 in the timeline. By then loading a motion, you could re-save it teaked. Then delete the motion from the timeline, add another, and it should be already properly tweaked. You could re-collect and save the motions this way if you wanted.
|
|
By ajm5050 - 9 Years Ago
|
|
sw00000p (6/19/2016)
Hello,
If you have 3dxchange 6 (Pipeline version).... you should be able to select the G5 character, then select the tab...(Edit in 3dxchange)
The G5 character should open in 3dxchange.
Select the (Convert to Non Standard) tab.
Now map the bones and configure the "Expression Editor."
or you could export your animated G5 character using the fbx format then....
Import your animated G5 character to 3dxchange 6 (Pipeline) and map your G5 bone to use G6 Bones.
This is one way to use Older G5 motions.:)
Thanks sw00000p, but I've never upgraded from 3dxchange 5 and I don't intent to :( so it's not an option for me.
|
|
By ajm5050 - 9 Years Ago
|
|
rampa (6/19/2016)
All iMotions, regardless of generation, work on iC6 characters. There are slight differences in geometry between different generations, so you will need to do "tweaks" now-and-again.
The changes for one should be the same for all of them, so just teak the character as your doing on frame 1 in the timeline. By then loading a motion, you could re-save it teaked. Then delete the motion from the timeline, add another, and it should be already properly tweaked. You could re-collect and save the motions this way if you wanted.
Hey rampa! You probably don't remember me, but you've helped me out a lot in the past so I'm very happy to see a familiar face :)
But you know what? The pre-iClone 6 motions work terribly on G6 characters. Have you seen how ridiculous their upper bodies look when you apply motions like 'G5 Mix Motions', 'MixMoves Communication 200' or in fact any motion files that were designed for G5 and below? It's a lot of work just to make them look okay and quite frankly to be tweaking nearly 1000 motion files is pretty insane. It's really Reallusion's job to make those files compatible with the new characters and it shouldn't fall on us to fix something that we paid good money for.
The G6 characters look really good and I was very excited for them, but it's really disappointing that I can't even use the motion files I paid lots of money to acquire on those new characters. The character creator program and the faces packs seem like such a waste of purchase now. I probably just should have stuck with the G5 characters. Oh well, too late. In any event, thank you for the help! :)
|
|
By Peter (RL) - 9 Years Ago
|
|
ajm5050 (6/19/2016)
But you know what? The pre-iClone 6 motions work terribly on G6 characters. Have you seen how ridiculous their upper bodies look when you apply motions like 'G5 Mix Motions', 'MixMoves Communication 200' or in fact any motion files that were designed for G5 and below? It's a lot of work just to make them look okay and quite frankly to be tweaking nearly 1000 motion files is pretty insane. It's really Reallusion's job to make those files compatible with the new characters and it shouldn't fall on us to fix something that we paid good money for.
Can you post a screenshot showing the problem? The G5 MixMoves motions and all other G5 motions should work fine with G6/CC characters. I certainly don't encounter any serious upper body issues when applying G5 motions so there may be some other problem here. Thanks.
|
|
By animagic - 9 Years Ago
|
|
I've used older motions on G6 characters, and as Rampa said, some adjustments are needed occasionally, but I haven't found them unusable.
|
|
By ajm5050 - 9 Years Ago
|
This is 'G5 MixMove Male' - 'Kneel01 to Idle01' motion comparison between Chuck and a G6 character.
This is the less muscular G6 character, Mason performing 'Masculine Movement' - 'Hot Idle'
Now check how natural Chuck looks after finishing the same 'Hot Idle' movement
It looks very unnatural in a screencap, so imagine watching the entire motion play out.. the G6 characters look seriously terrible when using the pre-Iclone 6 motion files.
|
|
By ajm5050 - 9 Years Ago
|
|
animagic (6/20/2016)
I've used older motions on G6 characters, and as Rampa said, some adjustments are needed occasionally, but I haven't found them unusable.
If you're having to do the adjustments only occasionally, then the only explanation for my problem is that there's something wrong with my installation. But that doesn't make sense either, since I've already tried not only reinstalling iClone 6 but also the motion files themselves. Every pre-iClone 6 motion files make the G6 characters push their chest out and fold their shoulders backward to an unnatural angle. It's not just some motion files, but all of them.
|
|
By Rampa - 9 Years Ago
|
Be aware that different CC characters will also require different stance corrections, even for the same motion. Make someone really tall, or fat, and the motion will no longer fit perfectly.
Keep practicing. You will get fast at it.
It gets really fun with imported BVH motions! ;)
|
|
By ajm5050 - 9 Years Ago
|
|
rampa (6/21/2016)
Be aware that different CC characters will also require different stance corrections, even for the same motion. Make someone really tall, or fat, and the motion will no longer fit perfectly.
Keep practicing. You will get fast at it.
It gets really fun with imported BVH motions! ;)
The thing is though, I'm talking about characters that were created by Reallusion and not by me using CC. I'm talking about standard G6 characters looking totally unnatural using the pre-iClone 6 motion files and not the characters that I've created. Practice shouldn't be the defined option here, because really.. it's not my responsibility to make the motion files that Reallusion sells compatible with their updated G6 characters. I was hoping there was a sensible workaround for this problem, but obviously there seem to be none. If an experienced user like yourself has no answer for this, then the only folks who can make this right are the people of Reallusion and that's pretty much it. There's no way in hell I'm tweaking the motion files of what's probably a library containing more than 1000 of them. That's insane. Nonetheless, thanks for the help.
|
|
By Peter (RL) - 9 Years Ago
|
ajm5050 (6/21/2016)
This is 'G5 MixMove Male' - 'Kneel01 to Idle01' motion comparison between Chuck and a G6 character. This is the less muscular G6 character, Mason performing 'Masculine Movement' - 'Hot Idle' Now check how natural Chuck looks after finishing the same 'Hot Idle' movement It looks very unnatural in a screencap, so imagine watching the entire motion play out.. the G6 characters look seriously terrible when using the pre-Iclone 6 motion files.
Thanks for posting the screenshots. :)
The issue isn't a distorted chest issue per se but is simply a positioning problem with the shoulders and arms due to the changes between different generations of characters. This kind of issue shouldn't affect all G5 motions but can occur sometimes.
You should be able to fix this quite easily by using "Edit Motion Layer". Making just small changes to the shoulders position and rotation will eliminate most of the problems. For issues where the arms penetrate the body, just move the timeline to the appropriate frame in the animation, and again adjust the positioning of the arms to correct the problem. With practise this should only take a few minutes. You can then save the corrected motion for later use with other CC characters.
|
|
By ajm5050 - 9 Years Ago
|
|
Peter (RL) (6/21/2016)
Thanks for posting the screenshots. :)
The issue isn't a distorted chest issue per se but is simply a positioning problem with the shoulders and arms due to the changes between different generations of characters. This kind of issue shouldn't affect all G5 motions but can occur sometimes.
You got it the other way around. The issue affects almost all G5 motions and only rarely look somewhat okay. Also, if it's a "simple problem" then it should be addressed by Reallusion and not by the users. If Reallusion never had the intention to fix the issue, then there should have been a disclaimer informing the buyers that the older motion files wouldn't optimally work with G6 characters. Had I known this major issue with the motion files, then I would have never upgraded from iClone 5, would have never purchased CC, Realistic Face 100 pack, Garry Pye's Comic Faces, G6 Empowerment and any other iClone 6 related add-ons. Instead, I would have invested the money on G5 characters and other iClone 5 assets.
Peter (RL) (6/21/2016)
You should be able to fix this quite easily by using "Edit Motion Layer". Making just small changes to the shoulders position and rotation will eliminate most of the problems. For issues where the arms penetrate the body, just move the timeline to the appropriate frame in the animation, and again adjust the positioning of the arms to correct the problem. With practise this should only take a few minutes. You can then save the corrected motion for later use with other CC characters.
I already said that I use "Edit Motion Layer" to correct the problem, so I don't know why you bring it up again. One of the key marketing pitch of iClone is the ease of use and motion files are one of the features that make it so much easier to work with and also helps you work faster. Why do you expect the users to tweak hundreds of motion files? It is Reallusion's job to make their program and all accopanying add-on packs to work properly, that responsibility doesn't fall on the consumers. I shouldn't have to "practice" fixing a problem that should have been addressed by Reallusion. I say it again, there should have been a disclaimer about this issue. It's a huge issue for those of us who've purchased a large collection of motion files and have made additional purchase to move up to iClone 6, fully expecting a properly working software. I seriously thought that if I waited long enough Reallusion would address this issue, but it's clear to me now that you expect us to just deal with it. So that's your final say right? You're saying that it's not a big problem from your perspective and you do not intend to address the issue. Did I understand you correctly?
|
|
By Peter (RL) - 9 Years Ago
|
|
ajm5050 (6/21/2016)
You got it the other way around. The issue affects almost all G5 motions and only rarely look somewhat okay.
I think we will have to agree to disagree on this. Based on your feedback I loaded about 50 random G5 and earlier motions onto a G6/CC character and I would estimate a good 80% - 90% worked fine without requiring any tweaking. Sure some do have minor issues but it certainly isn't almost all G5 motions as you state.
Also, if it's a "simple problem" then it should be addressed by Reallusion and not by the users.
The only complete solution would be to rebuild every G5 and earlier motion pack and this simply isn't feasible, especially when the issue doesn't affect all motions.
Then there should have been a disclaimer informing the buyers that the older motion files wouldn't optimally work with G6 characters.
This is a fair point. I will discuss with our content team if we should give a disclaimer that SOME older motions may not optimally work with G6/CC characters.
I already said that I use "Edit Motion Layer" to correct the problem, so I don't know why you bring it up again.
Because you indicated that it wasn't really possible to correct the problem using "Edit Motion Layer" which was incorrect.
It's a huge issue for those of us who've purchased a large collection of motion files and have made additional purchase to move up to iClone 6, fully expecting a properly working software.
Actually I don't think it is as huge an issue as you think. I base this on the fact that we haven't received many other complaints about older motion clips. However this may be that most users understand that editing motion clips is required sometimes. This even applies to motions directly made for G6/CC characters. Depending on the size of the avatar or the clothing they are wearing you do sometimes have to tweak some motions to get best results. Of course ideally we would all like a system where motion clips automatically adjust to the individual avatar but that sadly isn't available (yet).
Thank you for taking the time to share your feedback. We do appreciate it. :)
|
|
By animagic - 9 Years Ago
|
|
The shape of the character is a factor too. A fat person cannot do some motions that a regular person can do. That's just physique and will require adjustments in any program.
|
|
By ajm5050 - 9 Years Ago
|
|
Peter (RL) (6/22/2016)
I think we will have to agree to disagree on this. Based on your feedback I loaded about 50 random G5 and earlier motions onto a G6/CC character and I would estimate a good 80% - 90% worked fine without requiring any tweaking. Sure some do have minor issues but it certainly isn't almost all G5 motions as you state.
We don't have to agree to disagree because over the weekend I'll make you a video compilation of G6 motions with older motion files to prove this point. You wanted screenshots and I gave you screenshots proving my point, but you're still telling me it's all fine. So a video it is then.
Peter (RL) (6/22/2016)
The only complete solution would be to rebuild every G5 and earlier motion pack and this simply isn't feasible, especially when the issue doesn't affect all motions.
We'll come back to this after I make the video.
Peter (RL) (6/22/2016)
This is a fair point. I will discuss with our content team if we should give a disclaimer that SOME older motions may not optimally work with G6/CC characters.
Same here, after the video.
Peter (RL) (6/22/2016)
Because you indicated that it wasn't really possible to correct the problem using "Edit Motion Layer" which was incorrect.
I said it was a very time consuming process and that it never looks as natural as they do on G5s, which is true.
Peter (RL) (6/22/2016)
Actually I don't think it is as huge an issue as you think. I base this on the fact that we haven't received many other complaints about older motion clips. However this may be that most users understand that editing motion clips is required sometimes. This even applies to motions directly made for G6/CC characters. Depending on the size of the avatar or the clothing they are wearing you do sometimes have to tweak some motions to get best results. Of course ideally we would all like a system where motion clips automatically adjust to the individual avatar but that sadly isn't available (yet).
Thank you for taking the time to share your feedback. We do appreciate it. :)
It matters little how many had complaints about this issue, the important thing is that the problem exists. Based on the fact that you've marketed the G6 characters without any disclaimer on the issue, most users shouldn't have to understand that editing motion clips is required. I already said that I wasn't talking about characters that I had created using CC and I'm most certainly not talking about characters with much bigger body proportions. I showed you examples of the problem with the standard G6 characters, e.g. Mason so there's no need in overcomplicating this issue. I'll have the time needed to make the video compilation over the weekend, so I'll return to this thread when I'm finished with that.
|
|
By ajm5050 - 9 Years Ago
|
animagic (6/23/2016)
The shape of the character is a factor too. A fat person cannot do some motions that a regular person can do. That's just physique and will require adjustments in any program.
Which is why I've mentioned specifically that I'm talking about standard G6 characters made by Reallusion and not the ones created in CC or characters with bigger body proportions.
|
|
By Peter (RL) - 9 Years Ago
|
ajm5050 (6/23/2016)
animagic (6/23/2016)
The shape of the character is a factor too. A fat person cannot do some motions that a regular person can do. That's just physique and will require adjustments in any program. Which is why I've mentioned specifically that I'm talking about standard G6 characters made by Reallusion and not the ones created in CC or characters with bigger body proportions.
The original non standard G6 characters (Heidi and Mason) were a temporary solution but have now been replaced by CC characters. With CC characters there is no standard size as they can be any size a user wants, hence why you may still need to tweak some motions. Natalie and Christian are CC characters, not G6 characters.
|
|
By Peter (RL) - 9 Years Ago
|
sw00000p (6/22/2016)
Peter (RL) (6/22/2016)
...ideally we would all like a system where motion clips automatically adjust to the individual avatar but that sadly isn't available (yet).Sir_Peter_RL, You mean it's not yet available when using (iClone) correct?
Hi Sw00000p.. I'm referring to iClone. We are not talking about your favourite 3DS Max or other so called "Pro" tools. In iClone if you apply a standard motion clip to a large proportioned avatar, you will nearly always need to tweak the shoulders and arms using "Edit Motion Layer" to stop the arms protruding through body.
|