Need a developer to create 30 to 60 second trailer

Need a developer to create 30 to 60 second trailer

Home
»
Archive
»
iClone 6 Forum
»
General

https://forum.reallusion.com/Topic287282.aspx

Print Topic | Close Window

By mdgmpa - 10 Years Ago

I am looking for a talented develop who would like to create a 30 to 60 second cartoon animation for a project called Safety Goat (tm). 2d would be fine but the overall purpose would be represent who safety goat is and what his super powers are at a quality level to gain studio interest. On a budget until the project goes but right person with the right talent could get in on bottom floor of project.
Does anyone know someone that might be interested in a project like this with sick animation skills and can bring a butt load of edgy humor?

Thanks
Mark

By mark - 10 Years Ago

....a project like this with sick animation skills...?

Man I reek with "sick" animation skills!!!!!:P:P:P

By justaviking - 10 Years Ago

mdgmpa (6/8/2016)

...and can bring a butt load of edgy humor?

Are you looking for a writer too? That's where the edgy humor will come from.

By mdgmpa - 10 Years Ago

Share some links to your sick skills at safetygoatproject@gmail.com and we can go from there!

By mdgmpa - 10 Years Ago

Writer could be good but need developer capable of capture the essence of safety goat in animation. If interested in either let me know. We'll see were we go from there!

By mdgmpa - 10 Years Ago

Have any animation like simpsons etc.

By pmaina - 10 Years Ago

@mdgmpa

1. Please share example videos showing what you mean by "sick animations kills" and also one or two links to you-tube videos similar in concept to what you have in mind.
2. I see you are a newbie, what videos attracted you to iClone community? Post link please.
3. Whats your budget for the animator?
4. Do you already have the creative elements in place (characters, scripts, sets, voice etc)?
5. Do you need an all-round jack of all trades person or will you have people in charge of major departments (set design, cinematography, character dev, etc)
6. Will your client expect 100% exclusive ownership of the main character(s) - so it has to be based on unique artwork?
7. Are you planning to use motion capture technology? or will you buy motions and mix/match best fit or will there be a lot of keyframing?
8. What is your expectation regarding timelines for the project?
9. Do you have a credible escrow for payment assurance (freelancer.com can do for example)?
Cheers.

By VirtualMedia - 10 Years Ago

pmaina (6/8/2016)

Thanks for a needed dose of caution. It's great that people outside the IC community are looking inside for content creators and I certainly hope this works out well for Mark and someone in our community. Nothing personal Mark but I recall a similar posting in the not so distant past and I don't recall it working out so well.

btw - Does RL have a job posting thread? If not it would be a great idea..

By justaviking - 10 Years Ago

@Mark (original poster),

Do no take VirtualMedia's list of questions in a negative way!!! They are all great questions, meant to clarify what skill set and what sort of arrangement you are seeking.

Every once in a while, someone comes here with "for hire" opportunities. (Other times requesting people to work for free, but appearing in credits.) Sometimes things work out great. Other times a person asks, people respond, but the originator never returns, never replies, and doesn't even have the courtesy to say goodbye.

It's tough when we don't know each other yet.

A HUGE CHALLENGE HERE, if I understood this correctly, is "nothing" exists yet. So the person creating the trailer will have a huge investment in time and effort into creating everything; the character(s), props, the set, voice-over, sound effects, music, all of that. In that sense, a 30-second trailer could be 90% as much work as making a 5-minute or longer video. Do you "underpay" the person making the trailer, in exchange for the promise of follow-on work where he or she can now efficiently leverage those assets? Or do you pay "full price" with no promise of who gets the future work?

On that thought... what if a studio does like it, but wants to buy the rights to it and make it themselves? Does the trailer-maker share in those riches, since he wouldn't be getting and of that future work?

A couple more immediate question are: What if you're not happy with the results? Expectations to preview (and "direct") work-in-progress?

I hope it all works out great for both you and anyone who partners with you. Hopefully we can see some screenshots and hear a success story.

By VirtualMedia - 10 Years Ago

justaviking (6/9/2016)

Credit goes to where credits due - pmaina had the great questions and you have some great follow ups. I just quoted pmaina and threw in some caution, your candor is appreciated and summed up well. I had no ill intent, just looking out for fellow members.

Unfortunately I had a few rides in this rodeo in days gone by which ultimately led to a team of me myself and I. It is what it is but I lost some good friends, a lot of time and money in the process. Hope this is just a cautionary tale and Mark and his future content creator make this a win - win!

By planetstardragon - 10 Years Ago

sounds like the beginnings of an animators union
https://animationguild.org/contracts-wages/

By kenmatthews - 10 Years Ago

Hello Virtualmedia,
I too, have been down this path, with nothing to show for it! I was asked to do a storyboard of "The Tempest", which I did, and you can imagine the days and weeks spent on such a project. Every stage was approved and I was promised money, credits and profit sharing...
At the end of the day, the money (and everything else) was to come from a third person, at least that was what I was told, and was subsequently informed that the third person was unable to raise finance... To cut a long story short, I was told that there was no money, and I never heard from the client again, and he had the storyboards...

Just a word of caution from this tale, check all details of any deal thoroughly, and try to get a reputable (to you) person to look over all the details...

By pmaina - 10 Years Ago

Staggered payments can help reduce the risk of default.

15% on sign up
20% on delivery of each of the next 4 milestones
5% warranty paid after minor, post-completion fixes.

In all cases, make use of an ESCROW (financial intermediary) to guarantee that honest people stay honest on both sides.

Contracts are fairly worthless unless you are dealing with deep pocketed corporations.

Very important for animators to learn the BUSINESS or, if all that stuff is just too BORING, partner with a business brain that "gets" animation, otherwise the risk of being exploited or conned is very high.

This applies to all creative industries not just animation.

By justaviking - 10 Years Ago

VirtualMedia (6/9/2016)

Oops... thanks for the correction.

"Looking our for fellow members," I like that. I think it's helpful to the OP, too. Once again, best luck to all.

By mark - 10 Years Ago

I'm hearing crickets from the OP's corner. Oh well, some very good points have been made for sure...I've been burned a bit in the past too.
Is it wrong to want to get paid for my "sick" skills!!!:P:P:P

By mdgmpa - 10 Years Ago

Great questions! First rather than replying to everyone I'll post to all.

I have purchased much of the real software so I am struggling through but am so impressed with the possibilities of it all from crazy talk to iclone. I have a couple of projects that I am working on and yes I am on a budget but I will be willing to pay as fee for services but if the work is excellent certainly would be dumb not to include in future work.

Before I go into detail I would like to make a proposal, have you guys ever considered working together to create an evolving production studio team that can share on projects, split work according to talents and time, and do friendly competes for images and animations? If not, why and do you want to? I would be in to help pull the group together and setup a site. Would require a bit of discussion but might be worth it. Back to the project,

The Budget Initially is $1,000 fee for service for a completed pitch ready trailer with a more simple Phineas and Ferb type of look, motion, and feel to it but customized around the characters and settings with open creativity. Need characters and images to be in format/file for future use and animation. I am not a subject matter expert so please excuse my ignorance's in this arena. If all of you as a team want to collaborate dividing the work, the budget can be split.
1. Please share example videos showing what you mean by "sick animations kills" and also one or two links to you-tube videos similar in concept to what you have in mind.
Someone whose work is capable of creating a pitch ready cartoon quality trailer that reflects the intent of the work with the possible of adding high level animation as needed.
2. I see you are a newbie, what videos attracted you to iClone community? Post link please.
I actually purchased a lot of the software just have not had time to really learn it and want to move the project.
3. Whats your budget for the animator?
$1,000 fee for service for completed pitch ready project. Future opportunities may be offered depending on work.
4. Do you already have the creative elements in place (characters, scripts, sets, voice etc)?
Yes. Safety Goat (tm) is the main character, Leo the Boxador (tm) will be telling the story with a potential additional narrator, the trailer will introduce Safety Goat in GoatZville (tm) where Safety Goat demonstrates his super powers as will be discussed upon NDA with individual or the group. I'll write the trailer from scripts already written. I need a character created as safety goat which will be apart of the fee for service. I will use my puppy for LEO. A voice over similar to that of the honest trailers guy might be good.
5. Do you need an all-round jack of all trades person or will you have people in charge of major departments (set design, cinematography, character dev, etc)
I'm open to an individual or team with budget split.
6. Will your client expect 100% exclusive ownership of the main character(s) - so it has to be based on unique artwork?
I will be keeping 100% ownership thus fee for service, however, I would certainly entertain those who help get it started being apart of a studio or production team as appropriate.
7. Are you planning to use motion capture technology? or will you buy motions and mix/match best fit or will there be a lot of keyframing?
I can't speak intelligently about this item.
8. What is your expectation regarding timelines for the project?
Flexible, result is more important than speed. I would say a month maybe more but again I have a learning curve on process and standards.
9. Do you have a credible escrow for payment assurance (freelancer.com can do for example)?
I don't mind paying through a service or paypal.
Do you "underpay" the person making the trailer, in exchange for the promise of follow-on work where he or she can now efficiently leverage those assets? Or do you pay "full price" with no promise of who gets the future work?

On that thought... what if a studio does like it, but wants to buy the rights to it and make it themselves? Does the trailer-maker share in those riches, since he wouldn't be getting and of that future work?
Trying to do fee for service in case it goes nowhere. I don't want anyone to feel cheated. If the trailer goes nowhere and the animator wishes to partner to do an independent production, I could go with that as well. I think that there are many different approaches from kids books, to videos, to educational content, to corporate training and even commercials. From tee shirts to skate boards and even candy.

What if you're not happy with the results? Expectations to preview (and "direct") work-in-progress? Think these two go together. I would want to certainly work with the animator on characters and would like to see the scenes as built. I could be wrong but the 2d type of cartoon should be much simpler than the amazing high level real type of animations I have seen!

Hope this answers the questions, let me know if my expectations are realistic.

By mdgmpa - 10 Years Ago

Might even have a competition for the best Safety Goat Character image. How could I do a competition for that? With members in this forum?

By pmaina - 10 Years Ago

I think 1K with zero "skin in the game" will not attract any of the pros here. Unless you have a "name" or some other connection that increases your odds for signup/distribution?

Sorry if I come across as a pessimist but pro can just as well make something and pitch directly to content buyers to get higher upside potential (far more than 1k) including residuals... and reuse assets for other projects.

However a student or hobbyist doing it just for fun, credits or experience might be up for it.

Am out but Good luck & wishing you Success!

By planetstardragon - 10 Years Ago

and fortunately we have both audiences here, they can show you everything from short cuts and ez buttons for youtube, to how to spend a few million on a render farm with state of the art workstation designs lol :D

it's what makes this particular forum so unique. The pros here look out for their young ♥

By animagic - 10 Years Ago

I wouldn't mind getting $1K assignments, although I'm not a fit for this particular one.

By GrannyJ - 10 Years Ago

@mdgmpa
Your proposal could still use a bit of further clarification - you are more likely to generate interest with specific requirements and deliverable benchmarks.

You say "2D is ok" - are you looking for a 2D or 3D result? Are you just looking for a professional animator or do you require a developer to create assets?
If 3D, do you already have 3D facial-ready rigged characters or are you expecting the developer to create/supply these?
If expecting the developer to include facial animation - are you supplying the developer with the scripted dialogs per character in mp3 format?
Do you already have the film stages (props, terrains, etc.) ready or must the developer create those as well?

Your proposal should stipulate clearly:
#1 - What format (avi, mp4, wmv, mov, png sequence, etc) & size (HD 1280x720, 800x600, HD 1920x1080, etc) you desire the final result to be AND what, if any, assets the developer would be required to build/rig & which assets, if any, would the developer retain the rights to; and which assets you would require the developer to assign all rights over to you.
#2 - what, if any, scripting will be supplied or is the developer to create same based on a general story outline. Detail specifically what you will supply & what the developer will be responsible for.
#3 - specific delivery benchmarks (example: film stages & rigged characters to be delivered within 30 days of proposal acceptance; initial raw footage scenes 1 thru ? to be delivered within 60 days of proposal acceptance; final post-edit film delivered within 90 days of proposal acceptance, etc.)
#4 - payment schedule based on deliverables as outline in item #3
The more clarification you supply, the better to ensure that all your requirements are crystal clear to anyone interested. It also generates a reference point for negotiation and/or change orders.

By justaviking - 10 Years Ago

So many great replies.
GrannyJ added more great items to consider.

I recently had the privilege of working with some people who needed some iClone work done. They were considering learning it and doing it themselves, however they wisely realized their time would be better spent working on the business (their strength) and having someone else do the animation work.

The point is, sometimes a person comes in having little-to-no idea what they're really asking. If they've never been involved in animation work, directly or even indirectly, they don't understand the steps and the effort required to achieve that first frame of animation. Characters, rigging, textures, props, sets, lighting, and so on, as previously discussed.

The first frame alone could easily be a $1,000 frame.
The next five-hundred frames might cost 20-cents each. Maybe even less.

A challenge we face is, how to educate and inform, without sounding negative or uncooperative? That first dance can be awkward.

By VirtualMedia - 10 Years Ago

kenmatthews (6/9/2016)

I feel your pain bro! It's a challenge many of us enjoy which is why many of us do it. That aside sometimes there's a business side, when a small studio takes a hit, or gets taken for a concept, design, and great deal of time, it can be devastating..

- In the end you gotta do it cause you love it -

By pmaina - 10 Years Ago

justaviking (6/10/2016)
The point is, sometimes a person comes in having little-to-no idea what they're really asking.

If they've never been involved in animation work, directly or even indirectly, they don't understand the steps and the effort required to achieve that first frame of animation. Characters, rigging, textures, props, sets, lighting, and so on, as previously discussed.

The first frame alone could easily be a $1,000 frame.
The next five-hundred frames might cost 20-cents each. Maybe even less.

A challenge we face is, how to educate and inform, without sounding negative or uncooperative? That first dance can be awkward.

Absolutely. I think it should be standard practice to first educate the client about the massive work involved so that:

1. You get a feel of the client's attitude towards animation, animators and the job itself. Matters a lot to me. Do they care to try understand and more importantly, after appreciating what is involved, VALUE the sheer amount of effort and sacrifice involved?

2. You manage the client's expectations so they don't ask for Disney/Pixar results from a tiny 1-3man team at 1/100,000th the budget making you feel like you did nothing yet in reality you moved MOUNTAINS.

3. The client can agree to a realistic schedule. Even with iClone, its really really ambitious and possibly unrealistic to try delivering a 30second pitch-ready trailer in one month especially when there's nothing to start with and the team is just one person.

This project is probably going to take 2-3 months minimum. If it takes 3 months, that's just $300 a month. At that budget, you're doing it for love - not money.
Etc etc...

By kenmatthews - 10 Years Ago

This is a really useful discussion, and should be pinned. Any developer who wishes to hire an Animator, should be advised to read the topic so they can see, exactly, the amount of time, skill, and planning (just to mention a few attributes) that are involved in such a project.

By mdgmpa - 10 Years Ago

No worries, thanks. Have to work with what I have but will keep you guys in mind as it grows hopefully!

By mdgmpa - 10 Years Ago

Will reply later today, appreciate the education on it.

By mdgmpa - 10 Years Ago

This is partly why I suggested creating a team collaborative through a website designed to capture a need, collaborate on it, and split funding as necessary. Funny you have what I need for a project, I know how to make you a virtual studio.

By mdgmpa - 10 Years Ago

Appreciate, I would love to learn it an do it fully time but have have several other major projects going.

By mdgmpa - 10 Years Ago

Might partner with right designer but the question is how to do that "dance" to commit to the right person. Question is what and how to do? Can't throw a blind commitment out just hoping that you haven't given away half your value and created a potential drag on movement. What are the typical arrangements. Why pay a grand if the concept itself is as equally value as the animation as it requires booth for success? Think its been mentioned by the respondents but it is a good points what decreases the challenge of the first dance, by the way a great analogy.

For the pitch video stock images I guess could be used but as other cost reducing strategies, I can't speak to that. What's the standard pitch quality of a video, maybe its ok to be less. But then I have to ask myself why not do it and struggle for a couple weeks using the 4000 in animation and audio software I have? Maybe i do the rough and have someone edit the final??? Where's the balance to produce an acceptable video, not sure I know the answer. Gladly take suggestions.

By VirtualMedia - 10 Years Ago

mdgmpa (6/10/2016)

Asking the right questions, and finding the right team can be challenging, it's a two way street.

Best of luck with your endeavors..

By mdgmpa - 10 Years Ago

Think I found what I need, thanks for every ones help and insight. I think I should have been more focused on Crazy Talk Developers rather than Iclone!

By justaviking - 10 Years Ago

mdgmpa (6/13/2016)

Think I found what I need, thanks for every ones help and insight. I think I should have been more focused on Crazy Talk Developers rather than Iclone!

I think 99% of the suggestions in this thread apply regardless of the technology used for a project like this... iClone, CrazyTalk, Blender, Maya, etc.

If you have any success, please remember us and share some pictures or video clips with us (within any NDA constraints).

Good luck to you. :)

By mdgmpa - 10 Years Ago

Will do, it would be awesome to come back and create that virtual studio! Might do that anyway after getting some things off my plate.