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By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 10 Years Ago
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Dear iCloners,
For your own good, I encourage your to vote for this request:
Open iClone to User Customization Through Scripting and SDK
"Why for my own good ?" you might ask. "I don't script, I don't code, this is too technical for me,.." you might think.
Well, by voting for this request understand it is like voting for "I need more peoples helping me on my own projects". It means more requests you may have may be answered/implemented by other users instead for you to wait for Reallusion to do so.
iClone already has a strong "assets" community, now iClone needs a strong "features" community as well.
A lot of requests already posted in the FeedBack Tracker could be already implemented if we had scripting/sdk available in iClone.
Think about it.
Cheers,
Guy.
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By Bellatrix - 10 Years Ago
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All 10 votes if I could.
I'm a (quality) add-on utility + plugin junkie
I spend multiple times more on software gadgets than my mobilephone hardware parts
Download/ bought almost every movie-making power utilities I can find for Daz/ Poser/ Carrara
Because I'm a "one man indie"
The smaller you are as a CG movie making unit
The more utilities and help from freelance coders you need
on that alone Scripting opening is vital to the typical iCloner.
The big picture is
There are so many unmet wishes in the wish list
Everyday the Feedback Tracker is growing and growing
into a mountain of minor wants and fundamental needs
Enabling user customization of Scripting and SDK will help address the workload
- and even add to RL's coffers!
I do understand the challenge of managing third party wares
esp in a tool with many novice
That said
with VR and Alembic, iClone is ready to fly, to truly GO PRO
Perhaps
have an experimental stage, invite only qualified users
a new category of Reallusion Certified Co-developers?
The scripted products could be labelled Add-ons, or iApps, or iToolkits...
Just thinking aloud...
I look forward to a new categories with access from RL homepage:
3D Animation > Add-ons
Products > Add-ons (after Products > Solutions)
Like Unity style utilities and resources page
or Lightwave Newtek-sanctioned plugins page
I look forward to misc scripted freebies spurring growth of iClone base
and improve the quality of community with MORE FREQUENT news of Things to Get Excited About with iClone
and Grabiller, thanks for making this suggestion
(and a belated thanks to your Marketplace freebie) :)
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By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 10 Years Ago
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@Bellatrix
Thanks for your feedback and support. I like the "iApp" or "iTool" idea : )
In fact there are indeed two major types of possible customizations:
1) "Features" and enhancements that could be attached to an Avatar, a Prop, etc..for animation, rendering, viewports (custom gizmos, etc..),..
2) "Tools" to ease the production of projects, batch tools, little utilities to filter things in the scene, to configure multiple rendering "passes", even to build scenes entirely, custom menus and panels, etc..
There is also a third type that could be added:
3) "Expressions", in parameters, the ability to reference other parameters (to create "links" between parameters), to drive several parameters with one generic "slider" for instance, to use random "noise" for certain parameters, etc... This would be the entry door for rigging capabilities.
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By Delerna - 10 Years Ago
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Voted for this also
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By animagic - 10 Years Ago
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I support this as well. There's a request for LUA scripting (432), but this request is phrased more general and thus to be preferred.
Similar requests have been around for a long time in various shapes and forms, and at one time alluded to as happening (in the form of LUA scripting including an SDK as I recall), so it's good to see this being brought up again with a broader POV.
It would be interesting to gather ideas from those who see the possibilities of what they would use it for (not worrying about how it would be done). To me this would be a way to create scripted animations. One example is my long-time wish to be able to generate gesture animations based on linguistic analysis of the dialog (I'm always struggling to get that right).
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By pmaina - 10 Years Ago
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Had to free up a vote as I had used them all up. Voted!
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By Bellatrix - 10 Years Ago
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duplicate deleted
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By Bellatrix - 10 Years Ago
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grabiller (5/26/2016)
In fact there are indeed two major types of possible customizations:
1) "Features" and enhancements that could be attached to an Avatar, a Prop, etc..for animation, rendering, viewports (custom gizmos, etc..)
In gamerspeak, iMod. :)
Anything with minor MODification of existing features...
Most of the minor requests, like breathing, collision refinement could be resolved with this.
Also most likely candidates as FREEBIES! :w00t::hehe::P
2) "Tools" to ease the production of projects, batch tools, little utilities to filter things in the scene, to configure multiple rendering "passes", even to build scenes entirely, custom menus and panels, etc..
iTool fits...I think.
My Quick Access custom buttons request falls under this category.
There is also a third type that could be added:
3) "Expressions", in parameters, the ability to reference other parameters (to create "links" between parameters), to drive several parameters with one generic "slider" for instance, to use random "noise" for certain parameters, etc... This would be the entry door for rigging capabilities.
Sounds like ERC? Which in most cases is considered a top level iAdd-on?
Yes the feverish request for a Face Rig with Flex Morph belong under this category
(Avatar Toolkit is under-developed as a character ERC solution, another wasted opp for RL)
iAddons examples I can think of:
iSpawn, iScatter...
And then, there's the iClone Plugins category, but with new 3rd party 'power co-dev'
Like
iHairStylist.... iHomeBaker (like The Sims bake-a-building)
This will be...iApp. To differentiate from in-house Plugins?
Custom Script opening, is like the Mother of Dragons
for those looking to grow lots of baby dragons! :D
The possibilities that it opens up....imagine... :)
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By Bellatrix - 10 Years Ago
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animagic (5/26/2016)[/b]
It would be interesting to gather ideas from those who see the possibilities of what they would use it for (not worrying about how it would be done).
Agree on the whole...
Discussing the various category of Scripts general is totally valid here I reckon
to inform those new to the concept of CG addon/plugin "subculture" or cottage industry
to also brainstorm how the scripting categories fit into the narrower iClone derivative products context
but yes virtues of pythons vs C/C++ indepth debate deserve own dedicated thread indeed.
Interested to hear other's ideas - from coders or future script patrons! :)
Carry on...
p/s RL forum admin pls don't move this to wish list this discussion is 'top level iclone major scale' and too broad to fit there thank you for being so progressive
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By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 10 Years Ago
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Thanks guys for your support.
What puzzles me is that this forum is supposed to have 1,123,725 members and that the highest votes count in the FeedBack Tracker is 36 !?
I'm having hard time to explain this to myself : p
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By Delerna - 10 Years Ago
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I added a comment to the request.
Im a business software developer more that a 3D developer but i hope reallussion listens to this.
I have seen so many applications that have enabled this sort of thing and benefited greatly because of it.
Plus i would like to get into this sort of thing with iclone.
Even if i didnt come up with anything useful i know plenty of others would
Edit. By listen to this i meant the request
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By animagic - 10 Years Ago
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grabiller (5/27/2016)
Thanks guys for your support.
What puzzles me is that this forum is supposed to have 1,123,725 members and that the highest votes count in the FeedBack Tracker is 36 !?
I'm having hard time to explain this to myself : p
That used to be called the "silent majority"... I believe everyone who registers with RL is also a forum member. I hope for RL that they are at least paying customers.
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By Bellatrix - 10 Years Ago
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grabiller (5/27/2016)
What puzzles me is that this forum is supposed to have 1,123,725 members and that the highest votes count in the FeedBack Tracker is 36 !?
I'm having hard time to explain this to myself : p
LOL the 1 million figure is over almost one decade and include CT + other RL product users.
The more modest daily visit count is 5000-ish I think, no bad actually
Note that the active non-English forums are "silent" to the English language forums too
As to the Feedback Tracker, viewcounts/ votes is consistent
absolute viewcounts number Great Depression is but a side effect of vote count hyperdeflation ;)
I won't call it a white elephant yet as it's still in beta and open for discussion HERE
Anyway your request got 6 votes in 24 hours - in spite of vote hyperdeflation!
but yes even a good idea will take time to be digested...
With more edutainment all parties should see it as a win-win-win thing :w00t:
So l'll do my part and elaborate on why Customization by Script request deserve all my votes
It is the mother of all requests
It will lighten the load of Feedback Tracker
If it happens - we will even have a iClone subforum for co-develeper Script Addons...
Resources & Utilities forum with dozens of plugin developers!
With a very active thread: Addons Wanted ! (started by me of course) :D
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By Bellatrix - 10 Years Ago
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:) Delerna (5/27/2016)
I added a comment to the request.
Im a business software developer more that a 3D developer but i hope reallussion listens to this.
I have seen so many applications that have enabled this sort of thing and benefited greatly because of it.
Good comment (especially the 'for RL's own good too" bit so +1):)
Customization by Script - and its thriving coder community is
what kept Poser going
what kept Carrara alive
what made Daz Studio useful to animators
why ZBrushers have useful 90%FREE scripts and love@Pixo more than nag@Pixo
what made Blender a top level game engine DCC reference (and a threat to Max Maya C4D)
I know the value of things and the downside of opensource tools BUT
Everytime I bump into another Blender addon videos on YT...
I can't help but wonder
why oh why, so much wastage of iClone potential, and esp skilled iClone human resource?
Imagine how much more fun novice and pros will enjoy using iClone...
With this Blender goodies list
or another fun toys list
or this PR POSITIVE - optics or actual sales increase - kind of list
Imagine iCloners having what Blenderers have been enjoying for some time now...:)
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By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 10 Years Ago
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Keep up the votes. Remember, it's for your own good : )
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By VirtualMedia - 10 Years Ago
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A definitive thumbs up and vote from me, It would seem logical for RL to seriously consider this. I couldn't tell you how many plugins and scripts I've purchased for DS, Carrara, Photoshop, Premiere and Maya. I would purchase a good facial animation tool, Goz plugin and a curve editor the day it was released.
RL could make a percentage of all sales, expand their market exponentially while upgrading IC from an enthusiast to pro level tool.
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By mtakerkart - 10 Years Ago
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Voted for it.
I totally agree with you guys. I'm not a programer but Clearly need you!!
As UDK 4 made for their new sequencer wich is very easy to use instead of the old not easy matinee...
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By rampart - 10 Years Ago
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You got my vote... lucky 13
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By Snarp Farkle - 10 Years Ago
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I'm not a programmer either, but I respect and appreciate the ones who are and provide scripts in other programs I use, this would be such a boost for iClone, I voted for this too! :)
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By Bellatrix - 10 Years Ago
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Sometimes I forget a simple word can conjure up different image in different people...
To some, the word Scripts probably translate to 'mmm not relevant to me I don't program...'
To me it translates to multi-color candy-like instant access buttons on my tool bar,
example, a section of my Daz Studio scripts-enabled tool bar (blue bracket = my custom toys):)
which makes my animation life 10000X more FUN and CREATIVE!
In Poser/DS it is possible to have a EZ-access one click button icon to your fav character/ prop/ anim/ UI....
one click to Reset entire character animation, or one click to Reset just the character's face, or chest...
one click to turn IK on/off...
all made possible by the amazing community of coders...
No need to nag or beg RL over 6 years or wait til 2018...
Imagine that!
Having scripting and SDK opened, also means getting this kind of goodies in your animation
Very easy to use too! Because these toys are often made by animators for animators
Coder-animators who love the animation tools
Who also invest a great deal of energy educating the users and elevate standards!
So if you prefer to have fun
instead of the endless time-devouring import export loops
instead of begging and nagging for one tiny feature at a time....
Support the script-savvy animators among us...
Make good things happen more frequently in iClone space!
Do post pics and vids of 'this script would be awesome'
I will continue to add stuff to illustrate 'what scripting & addons' would mean to typical iCloners...
keeping the scripts/addons examples to free or low cost under-$500 animation moviemakers of course...:)
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By RobertoColombo - 10 Years Ago
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Casted my vote.
I have been asking for this for years...
If I start to list all the things and features that can be addressed by a set of API, I finish this post the next week... :-)
Being a quite skilled programmer (no kidding), I just wait and hope... RL please, please...
Roberto
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By theschemer - 10 Years Ago
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I voted YES too. This could be very useful. :)
TS
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By JIX - 10 Years Ago
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I´m wondering why RL didn´t implement this feature yet.
One of the main issues is, that RL has not enough manpower to get things done faster. I mean all of the things. This freakin´ fast world is not waiting.
Scripting would help to solve this issue! Give that capabilities & constructiveness out there a go!
By implication I hopefully wouldn´t have to wait for the iClone Physics or Head Module any longer ... just saying. ;)
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By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 10 Years Ago
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Awesome, the request is now #4 in the list!
Thanks for your support and votes : )
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By Colonel_Klink - 10 Years Ago
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I have voted for this too. Scripting for plugins is what grew Sketchup, and has kept a game like Operation Flashpoint (now ARMA 3) thriving. The ability to automate stuff and have user made plugins for a variety of tasks I think would benefit Iclone. Just the ability to have a character to trigger an action when it reaches a way point on path would be great. Or to load up a character and have preset wardrobes that are accessed from a one-click menu of choices. Perhaps include scripts that will allow in-Iclone morphing of characters from young to old. clothing from tidy to scruffy.
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By Delerna - 10 Years Ago
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With a decent SDK ..... imagination of the developer should be the only limitation.
Being able to script anything that a user can do would enable us to turn long complicated manual processes into relatively simple fill in a few parameters and click the button plugins. I do this all the time on our ERP where i work and so far there hasnt been anything i couldnt automate or simplify and even extend the existing functionality.
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By madicloner - 10 Years Ago
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iClone has scripting implemented. I have seen any kind of trigger-script (base of all scripts) in a Gorf project. But: It is not accessable. Not at all. Scripts are "locked" by RL already years ago. They are totally deaf to our cries for scripts for the same amount of years.
So go Unity. There you got PBR, ragdolls, scripts without end, cool physics, vehicles of all kinds and as "standard" a kind of "director mode". And for sure many, many more!
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By animagic - 10 Years Ago
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The proposal here goes further than what iClone may have implemented, which is not an SDK.
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By Bellatrix - 10 Years Ago
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Delerna (6/2/2016)
With a decent SDK ..... imagination of the developer should be the only limitation.
Being able to script anything that a user can do would enable us to turn long complicated manual processes into relatively simple fill in a few parameters and click the button plugins. I do this all the time on our ERP where i work and so far there hasnt been anything i couldnt automate or simplify and even extend the existing functionality.
Can't be said more often!
Everytime I "return" to iClone space, time goes to Zootopia's slow loris pace
have to keep reminding myself, hey be patient, ignore the product label - here things are reeeeeeeeaaaaaltime
As long as the growth rate is sustainable, why not right? ;)
Perhaps there's a species of prosumers who prefer taking long walks round the block?
Why solve the problem in 3 steps with INSIDE plugins and LOCAL scripts?
when you can do it in 240 clicks jumping between 3 OUTSIDE tools and between 2 Very Separated plugins?
Why not slow down and smell the CG roses and appreciate the sounds of loud clicky mechanical keys? :P
Anyway, I wanted to post more inspiring vids of Daz Studio plugin
But given how supposedly unpopular DS is this season
here's showing why in spite of neglectware status Carrara is still HOT and PRODUCTIVE
(free youtube promotional videos courtesy of catlady aside)!
Inagoni (very good value) output is from ONE coder user alone.
And they are FUN and EASY to use too!
Imagine what iClone could become! :w00t:
http://www.inagoni.com/
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By Lawsuit Pending Records - 10 Years Ago
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Sounds like a plan.
Been running those inagoni products for a while now and they are very good. works well to throw together a building in Carrara and shoot it over to iClone
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By madicloner - 10 Years Ago
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@Bellatrix
Think you mean, that Daz & co may solve our 3d problems better and faster. Yes and no. I tried all possible and known 3d software incl Carrara and all kind of games with editors. If you need easy and good auto-lipsync all games are for the bin. Daz has not bad lipsync, but you got a huge problem with physics, particles and so on. With Iray & co you get from Daz & co very good results - but that takes endless time. Additional the animation possibilities in Daz & co are very limited compared to iClone.iClone will still deliver best results for the hobby animator, that wants to make simple movies with speaking and moving toons and other avatars. More complicated movies with additional physics and particles and action will be a big problem to impossible, because with nearly no automation you run out of time, fast. If you got high-poly content, you should must use v5, because v6 likes to freeze up the whole computer, if you have too many Dazzies inside the project.
Go Unity and you will get all you need. PBR, automation, physics, vehicles and, and and. There you can work until v7 is finished. ;-)
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By stevevonder - 10 Years Ago
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indeed, I was also thinking of moving to Unity. Is it complicated?
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By Rampa - 10 Years Ago
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You may find that a combination of the two will be more powerful than Unity by itself for movie making. That is, if you already have iClone like most of us here.
Most of the timeline editors available for Unity are not really designed for the type of character animation that iClone offers. Things like motion blending, cutting, integrated lipsync, and so on.
I did find one that was designed more as a character animator than a cut scene creator. It has an Alembic import option as well, which will be quite useful.
http://slate.paradoxnotion.com/
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By madicloner - 10 Years Ago
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@stevevonder
You can take a lot from iClone to Unity and use it there. Unity is easy to use and any content has normally a demo scene included. Perfect for learing and combining of content. The problem is mainly finding the right content pack for your needs.
About one month of learning and trying in Unity ~ one year of fighting against issues and impossibilities of iclone.
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By animagic - 10 Years Ago
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madicloner (6/30/2016)
Go Unity and you will get all you need. PBR, automation, physics, vehicles and, and and. There you can work until v7 is finished. ;-)
I'm glad you found a solution and don't have to be bothered with iClone anymore.
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By Postfrosch - 10 Years Ago
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I'm glad you found a solution and don't have to be bothered with iClone anymore.
+1
Greets Postfrosch
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By Bellatrix - 10 Years Ago
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madicloner (6/30/2016)
@ Bellatrix Think you mean, that Daz & co may solve our 3d problems better and faster. Yes and no. Go Unity and you will get all you need.
No madicloner, that is not what I meant.
You misunderstood the very clear purpose of this thread and my postings :)
This discussion is not about Daz or Blender is better than iClone for iCloners
(Yes Unity is sexy so is UE Source FilmEngine all on my long candidate list)
There are enough threads about A tool vs B tool already
It would be totally on topic, to show your fav Unity addons that benefits iClone-type animators
(or start a fresh thread to talk Unity greatness)
@ everyone....
This discussion is CLEARLY about
Opening up Scripting & SDK = good for any CG "movie capable" tool
I emphasize again: GOOD for ANY TOOL - Unity Source Cry UE Maya Zbrush Modo Lightwave DazStudio Poser Carrara Blender FilmEngine
GOOD for their users. Functionality increase = productivity. Tool has longer life span.
Good for its developer's financial report. More sales more users more cash flow.
true for $4000 tool, true for FREE tools with $2.99 - $39.99 addons!
which, incidently, brings us to....
IClone is the only one in this long list of cinematic wares that does not have opened scripting/SDK !!! :w00t:
IF you really want to see iClone become great one day - iClone 6.8 or iClone 7 or iClone 2022
Do yourselves a favor - keep this discussion moving forward (instead of backward or sideway or nowhere)
continue to show how similar PROSUMER tool benefiting from opening scripting/SDK !
Why not $3500 pro tools or game dev tools?
Because many iCloners are easily intimidated
(also myopic: mistaken addons-efficiency as technical learning curve when it actually means more FUN and EASE!)
But who cares about users fun or ease or creative productivity ;)
This is a business
So..
from a marketing perspective...................
It's 2016 so about time iClone move on to Daz Studio grade prosumer! :laugh:
Here's another example how open scripting = robust user growth (in every sense of the word)!
Who would've thought physics was possible in Daz Studio!
Thanks to again, one very high output maverick MJcasual
I never thought Daz Studio will get more than ONE dynamic clothing plugin too
By end of this year it will have THREE dynamic clothing plugins!
Thanks to?
Coders, again!
and, of course
Wise busine$$ attitude about Scripting and SDK.... :)
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By madicloner - 10 Years Ago
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Well, we cry for x years for scripts in iClone. We don´t get it - and RL is deaf to these cries.
They invest time and money in never wanted VR and 360 instead of reacting to real senseful things.
I know the scripts in Daz - and the additional particles, too. Both is only provisory. Use v5 and you get better particles, physics and facials. RL has not reacted to your cries for years - and I don´t see any sign, that this behavior will change. VR & 360 is now totally hip and fullymega important. Heaven knows for what, when these gadgets can only make odd looking footage because of lack of modern PBR and other great graphics technics of today.
Anyway: Fav Unity addons is the whole Unity system. Take the animated iClone content and use the Unity content like PBR, AI and scripts to make your movie. That´s it!
And I see at moment no other chance for us. At moment RL has very different goals like VR & co.
Your second topic regarding why scripts are important for movie making:
As long you make very simple clips with some avatars, that move a bit around and speak a bit, all is ok. It is not the big problem, pushing some buttons at the right time.
Your problems begin, if you have action clips and many avatars, that should do something. Then the button pushing over and over again gets fast really time consuming and annoying.
Linked to this problem are more complicated content like vehicles with driving and pathfinding. Most of us are "one man shows". All my projects from 2015 are at moment on ice, because I got not the time for the needed, repetetive actions of turrets, ships and so on.
Or in short: With "AI" scripts we can "simulate" our helpers and "movie crew" for bigger projects. Without, we can only make smallest and tiny projects with simple content.
That´s the sense of scripts - and the only chance, that professionals may take iClone serious in future. And professionals mean customers with a lot of budget..
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By Colonel_Klink - 10 Years Ago
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I'm all for scripting. For many years I worked as a model maker/scripter for the military simulator VBS 1 then VBS 2. On aircraft models in particular, certain functions were added to the compiled model. These functions included rotating propellors, working undercarriages/wheels/canopies/flaps/ailerons etc. It would be great to be able to assign these functions to each model with keys so that Iclone users could manipulate the model in real time. If pitch/yaw/roll can be assigned to keys/joystick/mouse realism of flight could be obtained quickly. Adding keyboard driven functions to other vehicles/objects would assist in making movies in Iclone a lot more fun :)
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By videodv - 9 Years Ago
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You got my vote too.
Done some LUA scripting with MOHO (Animation Master) to make my and others workflow easier.
Looking forward to the day I/we can do same in Iclone.
Chris.
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By Kelleytoons - 9 Years Ago
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Well, you got your wish -- Python scripting IS coming to iClone 7.1 so hopefully even before the end of this year we'll have the abilities so many here have asked for.
I'm looking forward to it -- I did a lot of scripts for Max, and even more for my 2D animation software, Moho, and not only was it fun but it enabled me to do things the designers never imagined. Perhaps we'll even have a scripting forum section here where we can share ideas and scripts with all (if Peter is paying attention, might be a good idea to bookmark this for the day 7.1 is released).
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