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By animagic - 8 Years Ago
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I have entered a request for a functioning mirror in iClone 6. Go here to vote and/or add further refinements to the suggestion: http://www.reallusion.com/FeedBackTracker/Issue/Add-a-functioning-mirror.
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By justaviking - 8 Years Ago
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Yes!
I have used one of my precious votes on that suggestion.
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By urbanlamb - 8 Years Ago
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yeah i will vote for that one as well and then I have 5 votes left 
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By animagic - 8 Years Ago
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urbanlamb (4/23/2016)
yeah i will vote for that one as well and then I have 5 votes left
Thanks! (And Viking also.)
I didn't know we only had a final number of votes... I may have been too generous...
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By Rampa - 8 Years Ago
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You can un-vote, and get your votes back. So if something you voted for is doing really well, you can use that vote for something else.
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By urbanlamb - 8 Years Ago
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Yes you can move the votes around so if you run out and see something that is looking like its much needed you can unvote something else and move your vote to that. I put up a suggestion for the crowd generator since I know this is something people have asked for in the past last week and also found that of course if you start a suggestion you get an automatic permanent vote which I had not considered and so let everyone else put stuff up and I figured I would go vote on them after, but I might put up a few more ...
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By pumeco - 8 Years Ago
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I wasn't aware of limited votes, is it per week, month, year?
I totally agree we need perfect mirrors, but that should already be covered with a working reflections implementation in the new renderer. I'm not voting for it because that would mean I'd used a vote on something they'll have to give us anyway. If the new renderer arrived and still had crappy reflections, that would be it for a lot of people - they'll just switch to Unity3D or whatever - they won't wait any longer than the new renderer - and neither will I.
So I fully support Job's request, but I'm not using a vote on it cause it needs to come anyway (I have added a like to this thread though). I really shouldn't have supported Will's request for keyframing morphs either, cause I'd already pointed out a better way to do it myself. Same with Bella's keyframe request, haven't supported that for the same reason - I already requested this stuff using a far better, simpler, yet more powerful implementation (a keyframe toggle button for every slider) - it's by far the best (and most versatile) way to do it.
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By Rampa - 8 Years Ago
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There actually is a working reflection now, it just does not quite meet users expectations. Being able to assign mirror-like reflection to a flat surface (besides the water-plane) would be really nice.
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By urbanlamb - 8 Years Ago
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yes they have a reflection and refraction its not bad for things like windows but it is a bit odd in how/what it reflects. I dont turn it up high though and it takes a lot of processor power I find.
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By dogged2003 - 8 Years Ago
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Yes! I have used one of my precious votes on that suggestion. Thank you! Up! |
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By justaviking - 8 Years Ago
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ABOUT VOTES...
You get 10.
You can easily view your votes.
If you run out or change your mind, you can "unvote" to free one up and use it somewhere else.
I like that concept. We need to think about what is really important to us. Ten seems a bit low, but it makes more sense than infinite votes.
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By Rampa - 8 Years Ago
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I think having fewer votes would probably be even better. If they feel limited, they'll be used very carefully. The more thought, the better.
I think maybe a recurring top up might work well. Maybe 2-5 a month?
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By justaviking - 8 Years Ago
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The other website I've been on that has a similar voting tool also gives you a preset number of votes, and you can apply 1, 2, or 3 votes on any single topic. In that case, 10 can get used up extremely quickly.
But I see Rampa and I (and others, I'm sure) agree that having a limited number of votes so you use them carefully is a good thing.
Now... will this make a difference? It's not like Reallusion hasn't heard any "mirror" requests before. Time will tell.
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By animagic - 8 Years Ago
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I wouldn't want to limit it to less than 10, as there are many long-standing requests (such as the mirror) that need addressing as well. There is only a very small group of active users participating anyway, so who knows how representative this really is. But it's the best we have right know.
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By wires - 8 Years Ago
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I've used 5 votes so far, and I see that 2 of the suggestions have now been flagged as "Assigned" so I think that it is now safe to "Unvote" both.
The 2 "Assigned" are Image Sequences and Graph Editor.
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By pumeco - 8 Years Ago
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justaviking (4/26/2016)
ABOUT VOTES...
You get 10.
You can easily view your votes.
If you run out or change your mind, you can "unvote" to free one up and use it somewhere else.
I like that concept. We need to think about what is really important to us. Ten seems a bit low, but it makes more sense than infinite votes.
Thanks for the heads-up about the amount, but for how long is it until it resets?
Not that it matters really. I do like the idea of limited votes, and as rampa pointed out, in that case, even less would make people think even harder. The problem still remains (and no offence is meant to anyone with this remark), but hardly anyone voting understands design logic or even basics such as why one request would automatically lead to the ability to do another request and much more besides, so they'll use their vote on something that basically just sounds idyllic to them rather than being sensible about it. That's what 'bugs me'  ... about using the Feedback Tracker for requests. Most people are instinctly selfish, and that will do no good for shaping the program's future if RL intend to act strictly on the feature requests that have gathered the largest amount of votes.
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By justaviking - 8 Years Ago
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In another thread, it was pointed out how a different company totally failed to address their fundamental shortcomings in spite of having a "vote" system.
It is Reallusion's job to balance our "wish list" against having a vision for the product and knowing the industry, their own user base, the competitors, and the technology.
I imagine a lot of us will easily cast votes based on recent experience. If you're working on a project and run into something, that will be on your mind and you'll be like to vote based on that, even if it's not necessarily a long-term or big-picture thing. That's just human nature. I'm sure most will try to consider what's best for the product and other people, but it's hard to ignore the emotional impact of your most recent frustration.
Our votes may sway Reallusion, but it is their job to be in control of the product suite and ensure they're going in a good direction.
Lastly, I think the voting makes the most sense for product enhancements. Hopefully we never have to cast votes on bugs. Bugs should be duplicated by Reallusion and then fixed, even with zero votes.
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By wires - 8 Years Ago
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I would suggest that voting be disabled for topics tagged as bugs, while leaving the comments available for others to confirm the problem, or not.
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By urbanlamb - 8 Years Ago
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wires (4/27/2016)
I would suggest that voting be disabled for topics tagged as bugs, while leaving the comments available for others to confirm the problem, or not.
The voting lets them see how much people are affected by the bug actually so its probably a good idea. I think though (with bugs anyhow) if you upvote one you probably should be posting some comment on what you did to get the bug so the people trying to squash bugs have more info on how to get rid of said bug
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By Bellatrix - 8 Years Ago
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Posted a detailed response to this mirror request a week ago.
Posting a copy here to provide a "reflection overview" for new arrivals/ returning former users to iClone.
----begin copy----
This request gets the highest vote count for good reasons...
A typical year 1989 modern office/ living room/ bathroom have at least 2 to 3 MIRROR-REFLECTIVE OBJECTS
Nevermind futuristic home or spaceship interior...
It is a basic essential in story telling and cinematics.
Since it's been 2 weeks old and there's still no technical specifics on actual implementation...
I shall propose the following:
--------------------
Typically there're 2 ways reflections are done in realtime render engines.
1. Probe/ Projection Reflection (by 360 panoramic probe)
2. Planar Reflection (assign a flat surface of a mesh as a MIRROR Plane)
Users are currently unhappy with iC6 Projection Reflection probe implementation
as the title said: the current mirror reflection feature is NOT functional (not useful)
- because it fails to take into account MOVING CAMERA, and works only from a fixed still shot position.
- because it fails to render basic shadow, transparency, falloffs, and many other frequent occuring scene objects
- because the image is not usable as a flat bathroom mirror
To make Probe Reflection useful in most novice projects, the above issues need to be rectified:
1. Provide option to render probe by camera path AT FINAL RENDER (dialog to warn novice moving camera with reflective object is EXPENSIVE)
2. Basic shadow, transparency, threshold or not, must be rendered in reflection. Otherwise pointless exercise.
3. EXPOSE Reflection Probe Object to users (See Lumion 2013). This will allow users to manually adjust distance for simple shots.
Even if Probe Reflection is improved to become functional, it is still not addressing a primary desire of iClone users:
A MIRROR object, or MIRROR material.
I propose a new feature called MIRROR PLANE.
A scene is limited to say, 4, or 8, or 12 mirror planes.
Please see Lumion6.0 for implementation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm0n0gRB_oM
In iClone, the Mirror Plane is ideally a drag drop iMaterial (could also be a drag drop iProp dummy)
Drag and dropped onto a single planar surface of any iProp
It will render and update camera position POV in realtime
It will reflect shadow, transparency, speedtrees, and hopefully VFX
And like Probe Reflection, it has OPTION to render Preview quality initially but render high at Final Render
For high end system, users could choose to render reflection at Final Render quality
I understand the render cost of raytraced reflection
I also trust that users can be educated to accept some time/ resource expenses
Expected compromises:
I will settle for pixelated Preview render of reflection high fidelity final render of reflections
I will settle for prohibition to change camera FoV, DoF, even post effects after "baking to Final Render quality"
I will settle for reflection of reflection not rendering
Reflection of Reflective object/mat issue can be rectified with a new (global) Material Setting> SOFTNESS slider
(as in IBL "Softness" a.k.a. gaussian blur)
--------
Thank you for listening.
----end copy----
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By Bellatrix - 8 Years Ago
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Oh and by the way...Saw an earlier post about Facebook teaser showing iClone 6.5 export 360 video...
Well, we are VERY CLOSE to having scenes with moving camera + mirror reflection with proper shadows and transparency! 
EDIT: just read what mtakekart said, 360VR and iClone6.5 coming only in dec 2015.
Grrrrl
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By Alien Maniac - 8 Years Ago
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When IC 5 came out, people asked for mirrors
When IC 6 came out people asked for mirrors
When IC 7 comes out, will we be still be asking?
Is this Mission Impossible or what? Obviously so.
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By mr_vidius - 8 Years Ago
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Bray42 (5/14/2016)
When IC 5 came out, people asked for mirrors
When IC 6 came out people asked for mirrors
When IC 7 comes out, will we be still be asking?
Is this Mission Impossible or what? Obviously so.
Well Bray42, I purchased some mirror props in the marketplace, that work very well in IC5. they do work in IC6, but only in direct x 9 mode.
I'm no expert, like many in this forum. but the mirror effect is reflection/material based. and as we come to know. IC6 does not support some materials.
and this is quite apparent when using direct x 11 mode. now maybe, the RL creating team does not know how to do it. or that is copyrighted somewhere, and they can't do it.
or maybe, they bit off more than they can chew. software is only limited to the writer's abilities to write it. I doubt that this mirror situation will be resolved. and maybe
one of the super geniuses in the forum, have figured out a work around.. who knows.. there is that upcoming IC7 everyone is excited about.. when IC6 is not even finished yet.
but hey.. the "ching" is more important than the anything else right now.. so maybe, IC7 will be written with a different engine that could do the things we need. maybe not.. maybe IC8 will.
maybe not.. in any case.. I'm starting to save up some money, so I can buy a rig with i12 10gig processor and 100 gig memory.
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