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By pumeco - 10 Years Ago
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This is actually a feature request, but one with a hidden mission, to rid the iClone world of carboard women - something I'm sure Mason and friends would be extremely thankful for!
So iClone has a superb Spring Bone system, that's fantastic but it's 99% wasted cause there is no way to contol what parts of the mesh a Spring Bone has influence over. If you look at the attached GIF in a scientific fashion, you will notice that it's not just her buttocks that are jiggling, it's the top of her thigh as well. Right now, in iClone, you could add a Spring Bone to the buttocks, but there is no way to fine tune it's influence - and that's a serious limitation for Spring Bones. What I'm requesting here is to be able to select a Spring Bone, then paint a Dynamics Map directly onto the model in greyscale, so that we can control what parts of the mesh jiggle and how much it jiggles when a Spring Bone moves ... like this ...
- Select a Spring Bone
- Enter Dynamic Map Painting mode
- Paint where you want the jiggle using a greyscale brush and smoothing brush
- Jiggle away
In the attached example, the effect would be achieved by painting a lot of influence on the buttocks, some on the thigh, and using the smooth brush on the thigh to blend it so that the thigh doesn't jiggle quite as much as the buttocks. I don't know why I'm explaining that, cause of course the devs here will know what I mean. But yup, for the Spring Bones we definitely need a way to paint their influence maps on a per-bone basis, just like we can already set mass etc on a per-bone basis. Having this sytem in place would make a massive difference to the believability of characters (especially females).
To give you an idea of how important this stuff actually is, bear in mind the girl in this example is stationary, but as you can see, she still jiggles enough to be noticable :
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By pumeco - 10 Years Ago
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Dearest iCloners,
Mason here, just thought I'd drop by the thread to let you know I totally support this request. I mean come on guys, us iClone characters like our women soft and squeezy too you know, so it's not like you humans are the only ones who enjoy this stuff. Something like this ... it could put my relationship with Heidi on a whole new level of enjoyment if you know what I'm sayin'
Have a heart, guys, hit that like button, don't let me down - you guys are the best!
And hey, have a good one for me, cheers,
- Mason
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By justaviking - 10 Years Ago
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Was it you who posted other pictures for "analysis" a week or two ago?
I support science.
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By wendyluvscatz - 10 Years Ago
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While I could spout some feminist diatribe, I also do recognise the need for lonely men like Pumeco to satisfry their needs with 3D animation, it keeps them off the streets and their hands off our bums!
So I will add my supoort behind this request along with jiggling male anatomy for us ladies.
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By pumeco - 10 Years Ago
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You have no idea how hard I laughed when I read that, Wendy, and I won't even try to defend myself, cause no one would believe me anyway :laugh:
Actually though, in my defense I have pics of sexy retro-babes for when I fancy some 'Me Time', so my reasons for wanting this stuff in iClone is purely from a realism point of view, purely professional :D
That said, it was nice to hear it from you, Wendy, a fine specimen of female jiggleness if ever I saw one - I knew you'd understand the importance of jiggle :w00t:
As for the support you have both pledged, I thank you from the bottom of my heart, but either yourself or Dennis have forgotten to click the "Like" button!
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By JIX - 10 Years Ago
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I have no idea, why this question popped into my head ...
Did you look for an example in order to explain that feature, or did you look for a feature in order to display that example?!
No, wait a minute ... you had that example already (for whatever reasons) and while watching it, you noticed the lack of that feature in iClone, right?!
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By animagic - 10 Years Ago
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There was functionality (it still is there to some extent) to control jiggling. The Spring section in the avatar Modify panel, which is currently used to control the breasts, has an underlying control file. By default, this file only includes the breasts, but you can/could include other parts as well. So in iClone 5, I could have a jiggling abdomen for example, but this doesn't work anymore for G6 in iClone 6 (I forgot if it still works for G5 characters in iClone 6). So there is some functionality somewhere in iClone, which could be expanded. The importance of jiggling has been appreciated by RL since iClone 3 I believe (to the horror of some), but could be further developed for sure.
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By pumeco - 10 Years Ago
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I'll reply to JJJAM and sw00000p a little later, but wow, Job, where on earth is that control file????????? :w00t::w00t::w00t::w00t::w00t::w00t::w00t::w00t::w00t:
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By pumeco - 10 Years Ago
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@All
That Like button still isn't showing a healthy enough count to reflect your love for jiggle, there's no point visiting the thread just to watch the GIF, you should support it by clicking the like button!
It might not matter, but if RL look at the amount of likes for requests, it's important to hit the button just in case!
@JJJAM
Yeah, but don't underestimate how hard it is to find a 'Jiggle GIF' that is respectable enough to post on here, most of them are just blatant in-your-face T'n'A jiggling GIFs!
I was really glad when I found that one, cause it demonstrates influence as well as jiggle, it highlights the point that having a buttock bone alone is no good if it's influence can't be increased over the thigh as well :P
Believe it or not, one of the most important areas for this stuff is the back of the upper arm. Adding jiggle even there makes a lot of difference to things. It would be great if RL could give us, say, ten fully positional Spring Bones that can be placed anywhere within the figure. With ten positional Spring Bones to play with, that would give us enough to do a whole figure, something like :
- Breasts L+R (2 Bones Total)
- Buttocks L+R (2 Bones Total)
- Thighs L+R (2 Bones Total)
- Upper Arms L+R (2 Bones Total)
- Abdomen L+R (2 Bones Total)
A grand total of ten bones, and even a limit like that is super-powerful cause remember, if we have a way to edit the influence map, a buttock bone could also include a thigh (as demonstrated in the GIF). That leaves you with 2 bones to play with, and those bones could do anything you want, like you could position them on the floppy face cheeks of a cartoon character or whatever you want. The point is, Spring Bones seem to be extremely resource-friendly and lag-free, so a set of ten freely positional Spring Bones with a way to edit their influence map would allow us to achieve incredibly professional animation results (seriously, no messing here), so please, hit that like button JJJAM :w00t:
@sw00000p
Right, that does it ... you need a friendly slap for that ... I have plenty of "Noodle" and I eat enough of the things it's a wonder I haven't turned into one!
Here's a slap for you ... I'll be Burt ... you be Dom :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhTc3zCZoTc
But you still have time to redeem yourself, cause at least we agree that the Spring Bone system needs updating - and that's what I'm requesting here!
Just one thing though ... you haven't clicked the like button to show your support ... so BigDaddy RL might not think it matters ... so please click that like button ... just a little click :w00t:
I can't possibly take you seriously unless you click it :D
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By wendyluvscatz - 10 Years Ago
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You used to have to add spring via a script before Reallusion added the function in 3DX5
An spx file I think it was, they way I did it was by modifying horse tail one in notepad naming the unused bones I wanted to be springy and using parameter values
You loaded it as an aml file in Right click option if I recall, been a while since I did it, we now have lua scripts instead no idea if those work with it.
As I only had iC4 std I modified aml scripts a lot for animations I wanted longer or repeating too as I could not do it in the timeline.
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By wendyluvscatz - 10 Years Ago
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oops
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By JIX - 10 Years Ago
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Thanks for your further remarks, Pumeco.
I do like that idea and I´m supporting it by hitting that button!
Furthermore I have to admit, that I also liked that carefully selected example in deep admiration of the laws of nature and its sculpting talent ...
Better to put it that way, just in case Wendy is still thinking about some feminist diatribe. ;)
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By pumeco - 10 Years Ago
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@Wendy
I would never bother with it if it involves scripts, but I know how to make the bones into Spring Bones using 3DXChange, it's just a crazy shame we can't control the influence of them!
Not sure if this request would be better to implement than the paint-on full-body softbody dynamics requested the other week, but I hope we get one or the other cause it genuinely does bug me to see stiff figures walking around. No way anyone will believe me, but it's not a pervy thing, I just really hate stiff-looking figures. It's like with non-dynamic clothes, stuff like long dresses that bend with a leg etc, they look like cardboard dresses to me, so any form of dynamic is better than that. Makes me wonder why even the Spring Bone system they already have is so basic when it need not be. I don't see the point in adding just two breast bones. Why not add two buttock bones, two thigh bones, two upper arm bones, and two abdomen bones as well, cause it would take no extra development time, they're just extra bones - they already have the system in place that is being used on the breasts :crazy:
Same with the CC characters, two breast bones and that's ya lot ... weird!
@JJJAM
Cheers mate, you're rocking pretty hard for that! As for the others, personally I think they get a kick out of not adding the like, like some sort of sadistic pleasure. If it were something I'd begged them not to support, there'd likely be a hundred likes on the thread by now. Nevertheless, they all want jiggle, I know they do, at least I reckon most people would :D
@sw00000p
It does not inflate my head, I just think it's important to give them a relative idea of the amount of interest in any specific feature :Wow:
If they saw a thread with no likes for example, they're surely gonna think ... no interest!
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By Colonel_Klink - 10 Years Ago
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Hey and let's not forget Bingo Wings :)
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By pumeco - 10 Years Ago
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@sw00000p
:blink: ... :Wow: ... :crazy: ... :Whistling:
@Colonel
Bingo Wings ... that's what the Upper Arm Spring Bones could be used for, they're perfect for Bingo Wings :D
That said, in my earlier post I completely forgot to mention 2 Spring Bones for the abdomen as well, so I just edited the post to add them.
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By wendyluvscatz - 10 Years Ago
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If your rigged mesh has the bones they can be spring bones, those free Autodesk ones they once had had them, in belly and butt, you can if keen add them in DAZ studio with content creation tools and weight paint,, I did to genesis but effed up my base files so had to clean it all out and reinstall.
Makehuman can have extra bones too.
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By pumeco - 10 Years Ago
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wendyluvscatz (3/25/2016)
... you can if keen add them in DAZ studio with content creation tools and weight paint ...
Thanks Wendy, that is exactly what I expected to be able to do in that other thread that tme, but according to master sw00000p, DAZ is a toy that doesn't have professional enough rigging tools to be able to do that. I was wanting to add spring bones to a Genesis 1 character and bring them into iClone. I was wanting to know how to control the influence of the bone. So just to clarify, are you saying I'd be able to control the influence of the bone using the weight map tools in DAZ?
If so, that's fantastic, that's what I wanted!!!
I'd still love to see this request implemented in iClone so that it works on CC characters, but what you just said sounds exactly like the sort of thing I was trying to do before :w00t:
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By Rampa - 10 Years Ago
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A spring bone is just a skeletal bone with a spring function on it. I posted the tutorial for it. There are already breast bones in the iClone skeleton. All you have to do is set them to be extend bones, and then set a spring for them. You can have as many different spring bones as you want, with different settings. But you probably do not want to make any of the movement bones into spring bones because they cannot then be animated with iMotions or the motion layer.
I'd have to check if there aretushy bones already in the iClone skeleton.
Your not needing to change the weighting of the bones or anything. By default, the breasts are weighted properly to the bones. You really only need to set them as spring bones.
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By pumeco - 10 Years Ago
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rampa (3/25/2016)
... You can have as many different spring bones as you want, with different settings. But you probably do not want to make any of the movement bones into spring bones because they cannot then be animated with iMotions or the motion layer ...
Cheers rampa, but what I'm getting at is I need to be able to control the influence of the bones, a preset influence is no good to me. What Wendy says sounds as if it's exactly how I expected it to be, that the influence of a spring bone is simply taken from the weight map of that bone. That would make perfect sense to me cause like I said, I can't imagine where else it would get the influence mapping from. So yes, I know I can have as many spring bones as I want, and I know I can map them, but I wanted to know where iClone got it's spring bone influence map from - it's what I was trying to get out of sw00000p but to no avail.
I hope Wendy is meaning what I think she means!
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By Rampa - 10 Years Ago
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Sounds like you got it. :)
The weighting of the mesh to the bone is done exactly the same way you weight any mesh to any bone. The spring setting is only a bone setting. It requires the mesh to already be properly weighted to the bone.
If you watch the tutorial, you'll see that the springs are very adjustable (via several sliders, and option for rotation or translation).
Wendy is suggesting adding bones and weighting the mesh to them in DAZ. Sw00000p is saying he does everything in max, and so has no use for springs in iClone, as it would be a canned animation at that point.
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By Snarp Farkle - 10 Years Ago
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I am all for as much realism in animation that I can get and I agree with pumeco that jiggles are necessary in any or all body parts to get that realism, maybe I want a big nose and fat cheeks to jiggle when a character moves his head for instance. I can get close with a DAZ character if I add the body part bone movements in the timeline then use 3DX custom slots to animate them, but this is very time consuming and very hard to line up with a walk animation in iClone for instance. I have had some limited success with breast, chest, tummy and butt jiggles this way but like I said... very time consuming. I've not had much luck with spring effects in iClone6, some work but most don't, they seem to loose something in the transition from 3DX to iClone for me even if I max all the settings in 3DX.
@pumeco, I'm with you brother, humans jiggle, animals jiggle, but women jiggle more and we should be able to show the jiggles wherever we want, even love handles! :D
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By pumeco - 10 Years Ago
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@rampa
As the influence is taken from the weight map of the bone, then I already "got it" long ago ;)
It's just a certain sw00000plish-speaking character didn't understand English.
The answer to my question was dead easy all along, the answer is that a spring bone gets it's influence information from the weight map of the bone.
That's all he needed to say - lol
@Snarp
Cheers mate, that's exactly the sort of enthusiasm I was hoping everyone would have for this feature :w00t:
And yup, so many uses for it, not just babes!
@sw00000p
Sorry, but you're doing that Max thing again, not intertested in Max especially when it can be done it DAZ :D
Honestly sw00000p, it was like getting blood out of a stone - weight map of the bone is the answer!
Grrrrrrrrr :Wow:
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By pumeco - 10 Years Ago
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Well at least you don't deny it, that's something to be thankful for :Wow::D
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By Bellatrix - 10 Years Ago
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sw00000p (3/24/2016)
"Why can't you control ANY part of the mesh with spring bone... WITH the desired results?" :Whistling:
Lack of Fine-Tuning Tools.
The "Spring Bone, Vismeme / Phoneme and Multiple Motion Blending" tools are in dire need of improved functionality.
Period!
In Dire Need, indeed.
In Time.... BigDaddy RL WILL enhance these tools.
Maybe iClone 7 :)
The question is...
Will people wait that long for these char anim necessities?
The longer people wait...the more they learn Daz Studio or Blender skinning... the more they think the unthinkable...
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By Bellatrix - 10 Years Ago
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wendyluvscatz (3/24/2016)
You used to have to add spring via a script before Reallusion added the function in 3DX5
An spx file I think it was, they way I did it was by modifying horse tail one in notepad naming the unused bones I wanted to be springy and using parameter values
You loaded it as an aml file in Right click option if I recall, been a while since I did it, we now have lua scripts instead no idea if those work with it.
As I only had iC4 std I modified aml scripts a lot for animations I wanted longer or repeating too as I could not do it in the timeline.
Good tips here from Wendy (and animagic)
What's up with the AML and LUA situation? Any update?
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By pumeco - 10 Years Ago
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sw00000p (3/26/2016)
I don't admit, nor deny anything. It's nice to see the Noodles warm up, though!:)
Now release the hounds!:cool:
Hey I'm sure I'll get over it, sw00000p, but I'm actually pretty pissed-off about what you did :ermm:
@Bella
Spot-on, that's exactly why I'm not holding my breath for any specific feature to appear, not even this one. I hope they do appear, and I think some of them will appear, but it's always reassuring to think that if these necessities don't appear in iClone for whatever reason, they are already there in Blender. Just the other week they officially added Anamorphic DOF (something I desperately want) to Blender and it works simply and perfectly. It's just a single control they added to 2.77 that equals complete awesomeness cause it means Blender can now look truly cinematinc in every possible sense. Now that Blender has it, people will use it, which in turn will eventually cause people using other programs to start ranting at the developers of their chosen software cause their DOF looks like crap compared to Blender. It'll take some time for people to realise what they're seeing, but it will happen. It's the same with something like this, the jiggle stuff. If RL were to implement it so that it was as easy as selecting a bone and painting the juggle influence, you would see not just better, much more natural looking animation, but an influx of users who are seeing the results on YouTube etc.
We all know what YouTube is like, so can you imagine what it would do for Reallusion's sales statistics if our figures jigged like this?
[Image removed by Moderator]
Let me give you a few examples of what the YouTube comments would go like (and bear in mind you can pretty much guarantee this would be the case) :
- OMG i think i just died!!!!
- help plz... i need this software where can i get it?
- I'll second that question, where can we get that software?!?!?
- what is name of sofware plz? ....... plz tell me I need to know thnx
- I need this in my life!
- This is a gamechanger folks, your animations will look so much better now this is in place!
- Hey guys and gals, this is done with iClone software, you can get it on reallusion.com so just download the demo and you will definitely buy it ...hahaha!!!
- Awesome!
- lol
- is it free?
- No dumbass, it's not free, but who cares when it does stuff like that, right?
- Yeah, he's right dude!
- I am happy to support this software thankyou reallusion you are the best.....
- I'm so buying this ...
- WOAH!!!!!!
- My GF jiggles like that :D
- Hey guys I just bought it .. you should def check it out ... best software ever!
- Already did .lol. and I agree :P
- Easy to do as well, you just paint where you want it to jiggle :-D
- In realtime as well peeps!
- yeah why can't all software be as easy as this?
- who needs real women?
- ya ... this is the future.
- I uploaded a jiggle video I made with this thing and it got like over a thousand views in just two hours :-D
- reallusion must be gods for making software as good as this - cuz I think it's awesum :P
- My GF just dumped me and I don't care .. that can't be right!
- haha :-D
- they are having a sale so if ur quick you will get it for a good price
- hey it said they have only got one million copies left so you better be quick about it guys
- Cheers man!
- Bought this as soon as they released it, best purchase ever!!!!!!
- plz help I cant make it jiggle :-(
- help plz is urgant .....
- Activate teh bone first you idiot!!
- ok that worked tnx :-D
- your welcome bro!
Now what we all (especially RL) really need to ask ourselves is, can Reallusion really afford to dismiss all those potential customers that are the result of just one video on YouTube? :D
Well ok then ... if you say so ... I'm just supporting my request as best I know how ;)
I hope the attached GIF is ok for on here. Wasn't sure to be honest but basically I chose the best clothed GIF I could find, so she is clothed, I'm just not 100% sure if it's ok (but hope it is)
If it's not then Peter will no doubt edit it out, but hopefully not me as well in the process :P
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By wendyluvscatz - 10 Years Ago
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I just could not tear my eyes away from that for a few minutes, not necessarily because I wanted to see it!
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By JIX - 10 Years Ago
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Ugh! You really don´t know better?!
Just wondering which target audience you are going to attract by your marketing campaign ...
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By pumeco - 10 Years Ago
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@Wendy
I know what you mean, it's just beautiful, I can't take my eyes off it either which further reinforces the attraction of this stuff to an audience, whether they expect it or not :D
@JJJAM
Of course I do, that's why I posted it. As I've said before, my own personal reasons for wanting it is simply to stop the figures looking like cardboard, or "wooden" as the saying goes. I even started-out the thread using my own reasons for wanting it, but there's no denying that if such a feature existed, it's existence would find much more entertaining usage than I had planned for it ;)
Might as well point out that aspect of it too, cause after all, those are all customers who would likely never have looked twice at iClone otherwise, they probably would never even have heard of it had they never clicked on that thumbnail on the YouTube video. The comments are basically an example of how very desirable things can easily go viral, and such things can work wonders for sales :)
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