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By warlord720 - 8 Years Ago
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Has anyone tried to use physics on the fibermesh from zBrush? It's late here and I'm too tired to think about the weight map so wondering if anyone has tried it via softcloth? This character is 285k which works on my system so far. Hair and beard are separate items. Stylized via Character Creator-zBrush-3dXchange pipeline.
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By Rampa - 8 Years Ago
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I have. Well not with Fibermesh specifically, but the same idea.
I used this little jewel of a program to convert Poser fiber hair to poly-strips. It UVs each one identically, so it's really easy to apply physics. It's stand-alone. There is a Blender addon that does a similar thing with Blender fiber hair.
http://www.sharecg.com/v/27296
It worked reasonably well! The motion was beautiful, but getting the strands to lie down nicely was sometimes an issue. I think the trick is start with it all vertical and let it fall. Or kind of radial anyway, so that it is not passing through other strands from the get go. Looks like your dude's hair is set up that way.  It is important to set the the bending and stretching of the physics to zero. Otherwise the hair strips tend to stretch wider sometimes.
I thought flat strips was a good idea, to keep the poly-count reasonable.
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By warlord720 - 8 Years Ago
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The problem I've run into before is too many collisions... or so I would guess. Version 6 is certainly handling it though. Fibermesh is super easy to create in zBrush so that is a real plus.
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By Rampa - 8 Years Ago
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I found keeping it styled was a problem. If it's all just straight and falls with physics, it has no structure. If I stiffened it up, it wouldn't fall enough. So, to have it shape nicely to the head, and kind of stay out of the face, I ended up having the strands conform to the curve of the head a bit. This had the problem of the strands being passing through each other. I didn't have Poser to make my own "thinner" head of hair. I just downloaded an existing one from ShareCG.
Looking forward to seeing what your mesh will do. 
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By warlord720 - 8 Years Ago
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There are a lot more zBrush users in the iCloneverse now so I'm hoping someone will figure it out eventually. With zBrush styling tools making standard fiber hair in various styles should be easy without the physics. Just have to watch poly count. At least we are still moving forward!
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By wendyluvscatz - 8 Years Ago
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I have done it using hair made by others
my own hairs have not gone as well
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By planetstardragon - 8 Years Ago
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i found the math was too much for my video card on the strand hair with softcloth physics, but rigging the hair with bones and putting springs on them worked out really well. at least for an afro hehe
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By urbanlamb - 8 Years Ago
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rampa (2/8/2016)
I have. Well not with Fibermesh specifically, but the same idea. I used this little jewel of a program to convert Poser fiber hair to poly-strips. It UVs each one identically, so it's really easy to apply physics. It's stand-alone. There is a Blender addon that does a similar thing with Blender fiber hair. http://www.sharecg.com/v/27296It worked reasonably well! The motion was beautiful, but getting the strands to lie down nicely was sometimes an issue. I think the trick is start with it all vertical and let it fall. Or kind of radial anyway, so that it is not passing through other strands from the get go. Looks like your dude's hair is set up that way. It is important to set the the bending and stretching of the physics to zero. Otherwise the hair strips tend to stretch wider sometimes. I thought flat strips was a good idea, to keep the poly-count reasonable.
you actually dont need to go through this now its a simple one button click
just make the hair particles and whatever and then hit the convert button and its done, but I think that for real time this is still too hard for our purposes if we actually want our characters to move and stuff LOL. On the other hand they are introducing a hair creator into the cc and its probably particle based so maybe if i watched poly count I could get something done that would not bring my pc to its knees.. i might give it a shot .
edit: I also found this on a quick search no time now but I installed it quickly and it seems to work so basically make the hair and convert it and it should remain mapped we shall see
http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Extensions:2.6/Py/Scripts/Objects/HairNet
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By warlord720 - 8 Years Ago
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I think that's right... watch the poly count and you might get away with it. Of all the fur, hair and fibers I've tried it seems that zBrush's fibermesh works the smoothest if you need an actual fiber look on hair population vs polycount. Still a heavy mesh but at least iClone doesn't just disappear like it did in previous versions. Right now... ANY hair is welcome.
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By urbanlamb - 8 Years Ago
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I did a quick count of those strands it was 320 so maybe its possible .. I might play with this tonight its yet another thing to play with I guess
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By Rampa - 8 Years Ago
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I'm finding that an in-between solution can look pretty good. Instead of the "fiber" which may have many edges, I am doing a very flattened isoceles triangle for a profile that I can texture with a lock of hair. The triangular profile keeps it from stretching on the X axis, so there is never the dreaded texture stretching. It'll lay pretty flat as well. Other profiles can stretch, and that doesn't look good. Internal triangular bracing could maybe keep that from happening, but would jack the poly-count to much.
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By wendyluvscatz - 8 Years Ago
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The one I used in my video was Zbrush made but bought, I have tried LAMH geometry exports, anything grows Carrara exports as well as Zbrush but mine tend to all fall out or move stiffly
His was better UV mapped and segmented than my attempts obviously.
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By wendyluvscatz - 8 Years Ago
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The one I used in my video was Zbrush made but bought, I have tried LAMH geometry exports, anything grows Carrara exports as well as Zbrush but mine tend to all fall out or move stiffly
His was better UV mapped and segmented than my attempts obviously.
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By warlord720 - 8 Years Ago
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I can remember when there was no hope of getting anything like this done but now there are so many talented people using iClone that a lot of this can be solved. It's come a long way from trying it in iClone 5 to now. Sculpting solid mesh hair in zBrush is very quick too. Maybe we could use a scalp cap for texture coverage (no skin see thru to lower fiber count even more) and only try physics on the edges of the hair and few select places... like we do with springs now.
Someone will figure it out... then God Forbid... interactive water maybe!!!
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By urbanlamb - 8 Years Ago
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I didnt spend much time on this so far (busy with trying to actually complete a little video) but I just made a cap using the head just copied some mesh from there to use it to hold the mess I was about to make... and then took some small sheets of hair texture planes and grew them out of the cap... and then grew come fiber hairs out of that it and it seemed to look like it would work. I wasnt you know very fancy I just wanted to figure it out anyhow it might be doable now. I will have another go at it in a couple day... I think it can be done
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By Rampa - 8 Years Ago
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@UL
I'm not seeing that convert button in Blender for the hair modifier. Do you have to finalize the hair somehow first? I'm using 2.76.
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By Rampa - 8 Years Ago
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rampa (2/9/2016)
@UL
I'm not seeing that convert button in Blender for the hair modifier. Do you have to finalize the hair somehow first? I'm using 2.76.
I got it. I was in the wrong mode. 
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By urbanlamb - 8 Years Ago
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lol i just did two experiments the first i dont think will work but the second this might work...
here is the one with fibers, but when i went to make it to polygons the information generated was to me seeming that it would be like a bad idea to use in iclone I was afraid I would blow up my card,
but the second.. now this was one plane with a pile of particle planes that are only 4 faces each and I think this will work one slab was 1,420 poly and it looked pretty crowded to me so I think I could make hair that would be around 10k polygons which is high but ... usable i supposed excuse the colours i was trying to make it so i could see it easily LOL>
not a work of art but.. here is the textured particles turned to mesh..with the slab i grew the hairs on.. itsnot that hard to do really.. i might take a serious stab at a hairstyle one day lol
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By Rampa - 8 Years Ago
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I've figured out how to convert my Blender hair into little 4 sided tubes (wish I could do 3), but I don't know how to apply a UV to them that runs the length.
Any ideas?
EDIT: Also solved. Gotta love Blender!
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By Rampa - 8 Years Ago
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Woohoo! 6.4 trick!
The position of the soft physics simulation is now retained when you do a "remove alll animation". So, you can have your hair all up and straight, run the sim to where it's settled, remove all animation, and it will use that as it's starting point.
That means you pre-drape stuff!
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By Rampa - 8 Years Ago
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Here we go. the hair has only about 5 segments, so is a bit "stiff". I thought I'd try that and apply real-time smoothing. It works pretty well. I have not put any opacity to feather the ends on this one.
Each strand is a 4-sided cylinder. I would prefer 3 sided (because it cannot stretch), but Blender has a 4 minimum with the method I used.
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By warlord720 - 8 Years Ago
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Nice work Rampa. Now that's progress.
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By urbanlamb - 8 Years Ago
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rampa (2/9/2016)
Woohoo! 6.4 trick! The position of the soft physics simulation is now retained when you do a "remove alll animation". So, you can have your hair all up and straight, run the sim to where it's settled, remove all animation, and it will use that as it's starting point. That means you pre-drape stuff!
oh yes this has been around for awhile I make things like table cloths etc with it its kinda fun you can stop it anywhere in the timeline and bake in the info and that is the shape you get (edit oops you were talking about iclone was wondering why that would be an issue in blender, but if i were to get my hairs inside blender looking okay I would turn on the soft cloth inside blender before exporting my mess and try to arrange the hair using that before I exported)
rampa (2/9/2016)
Here we go. the hair has only about 5 segments, so is a bit "stiff". I thought I'd try that and apply real-time smoothing. It works pretty well. I have not put any opacity to feather the ends on this one.
Each strand is a 4-sided cylinder. I would prefer 3 sided (because it cannot stretch), but Blender has a 4 minimum with the method I used.
that's almost hair like.
I will have another go at it tonight but yeah once you make the hair just turn on soft cloth in blender and you can make the head the collision object and get the sheets/tubes whatever to drape. Its kinda cool.
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By wendyluvscatz - 8 Years Ago
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trying Carrara Anything grows modifier hair export
used self mesh, a weight map with thin black bottom rest grey, bit sparse as too much crashes iClone and restore project fails
https://app.box.com/s/3vmwego5levjwvk7dl67ami5c5gdm8ei if any want to try, uniformly scale to 30
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By warlord720 - 8 Years Ago
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Nice work Wendy. The flow looks great.
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By Rampa - 8 Years Ago
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Cool Wendy! can Carrara create triangular profiles for the hair strands?
I'm using the Blender hair system, and converting it to curves which I can generate tubes from. The minimum profile is 4 sides though, so there is an occasional stretch (widening). The smallest size ends up pretty hair-like. 3 by 3 super sampling the output might tame the sparkle that this method has.
I'll post something a bit later. I need to develop my system a bit further first.
I find that a somewhat sparse hair is not bad, because you can double it up to get a thicker mane in iClone.
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By urbanlamb - 8 Years Ago
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well here is my best shot and yeah its 'not so hard' really. I used this and it was fibers. I converted to mesh and extruded once so its all planes I could have gone one further maybe and made it into tubes by using solidify I guess.
Very skimpy so I could have gone crazy with this as this hair was only 1,500 faces. She is going bald lol anyhow it works me thinks. I have never been much on making hair its not fun for me but I should I guess take some time to make some real hair
anyhow i have satisfied my curiousity of "yes this hair system can work in iclone now"
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By wendyluvscatz - 8 Years Ago
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Yes it can have many polys in thickness, I just chose 2 in order to keep polycount down but did the maximum of 20 segments along length.
It is a bought plugin for Carrara by Digital Carvers Guild
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By urbanlamb - 8 Years Ago
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lol here is another one you guys got me playing around. I kinda like the blender hair system its fun to use. .. but.. must stop now.. here is another idea this was 1,500 faces and I thought it would be way more so i could have gone nuts again. I think the extrude once from fibers method is probably a good one cause you can make LOTS of hair lol.
I left in a copy of the head cap which is just a copy of the imported head mesh of the cc character and put the hairs on a second material uv map so you can texture the head to match the head of the character a bit or add some sort of scalp colour and then texture the hair seperately.
I dont know if tubes are necessary since I can get more volume with planes.
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By urbanlamb - 8 Years Ago
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here this one is 4.5k tris (10 segments, fiber method and extrude once on x axis) 
I am just slapping any old texture on i can find but its uvmapped the final product can be better if you know i spent time on the uvmapping and texturing lol maybe tubes are needed in some places dunno
same one with tubes. just use solidify after extruding but now its like 20k tris (this one doesnt move as well so i think eleventy seventy planes method is better it flows better
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By Rampa - 8 Years Ago
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Finally got smart about keeping the hair out of the face!
For really long flowing hair, the little tubes work best, as they can never be seen edge-on (or not seen edge-on ). That gives much better coverage. It is kind of a one hair style method though.
Hopefully we'll be Nvidia Hairworks, or something, in a future update.
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By urbanlamb - 8 Years Ago
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I guess we will be doing imports into the CC after I reread the what to expect in 2016 my reading was being overly hopeful lol
Create Custom Cloth and Hair
In the upcoming Character Creator 1.5 version, we will provide design templates, sample files and documentation for custom Cloth, Hair, Shoes, and Accessory designs. Allowing users to finally be able to import their own character assets (.FBX format) while assigning appropriate outfit layers for optimal mix-and-match dressing capabilities.
Anyhow I might try to actually make some usable hair. We keep trying long hair but my interests are in more shorter hair so I guess for long hair you need some tubes if not 50% tubes. Most of my hair i need is short stuff and maybe some middle length stuff. I will probably play with the blender thing some more soonish and try and make curly hairs etc cause its actually kind of neat to use.
would be really cool to have nvidia hairworks though .......
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By Rampa - 8 Years Ago
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I finally figured out how to get my triangular hair. It makes a pretty big difference. Now it won't stretch wider if I crank up the inertia. It can stretch longer if needed with some setting changes.
This image is using two copies of it to really fill-out the hair.
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By wendyluvscatz - 8 Years Ago
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I just stumbled on this
https://github.com/theprotonfactor/HairWorks-Exporter-For-Blender
Maybe we can use Nvidia Hairworks
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By wendyluvscatz - 8 Years Ago
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I just stumbled on this
https://github.com/theprotonfactor/HairWorks-Exporter-For-Blender
Maybe we can use Nvidia Hairworks
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By wendyluvscatz - 8 Years Ago
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I just stumbled on this
https://github.com/theprotonfactor/HairWorks-Exporter-For-Blender
Maybe we can use Nvidia Hairworks
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