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By VirtualMedia - 11 Years Ago
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Pre-ordered the Pipeline version of 3DX mostly for the GoZ / silent / bridge to IClone 6 due the 4th quarter, any word on when this will drop?
Thanks / Happy Holidays
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By Peter (RL) - 11 Years Ago
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To be honest I don't think this will make 4th quarter. However I will check and try and get the latest schedule regarding GoZ.
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By VirtualMedia - 11 Years Ago
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Thanks Peter, always appreciate you trying to keep us updated.
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By Peter (RL) - 11 Years Ago
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Sadly I have to bring you bad news regarding GoZ and Silent Import/Export. These features have been cancelled at least for now as technical reasons prevented implementation. There were simply too many changes needed to the way iClone/3DXchange work with meshes (triangles as opposed to quads) that prevented GoZ from becoming a viable option.
We do apologise for the disappointment this will understandably cause.
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By JC Weatherby - 11 Years Ago
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What is GoZ?
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By mtakerkart - 11 Years Ago
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GoZ means "Go to Zbrush" in a "silent way" back and forth to modify your character.
It's not a bad news for my pipeline and Zbrush is quite expensive...
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By duchess110 - 11 Years Ago
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This was one of the reasons that I purchased 3dx6 pipeline so more than disappointed with the latest news.
Perhaps RL should take it off their product page as I see it is still there as an upcoming feature to follow.
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By justaviking - 11 Years Ago
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mtakerkart (12/10/2015)
...Zbrush is quite expensive...
Would such a "silent link" work with Scupltris too?
Sculptris is basically a free ("non-pro") version of Zbrush, if I understand correctly.
You can take Scupltris files into Zbrush. I'm not certain if it's the exact same file format, and if Zbrush models can be opened by Sculptris.
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By Bellatrix - 11 Years Ago
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Oh, yes, I immediately went to the 3DX6 page too.
Yes the EMPTY PROMISES of the 2 MOST CRUCIAL ADDITION TO 3DXCHANGE are indeed still up.
Taunting those pipeline users...
WYPFIWYG is the new normal?
What You Paid For Isn't What You Get?
For me, this is far worse than the $99 buyer remorse of Indigo.
I bought 3DX Pipeline for TWO REASONS:
1. Silent I/O
2. GoZ
I left iClone5 years ago for greener paths as I foresaw the anti-workflow anti-customization blocks.
Didn't regret.
I returned and paid for all V6 PIPELINE RL tools - on the promise of faster improved workflow and flowing customization pipeline
Now this dream is killed.
I have not felt so slapped in the face by a CG tool (or a game) I've invested plenty of time and resources.
3DXchange Pipeline or 3Dxchange Pipedream?
I feel the pain of RL's 3D content developers.
Psychological pain from deep disappointment + Carpal Tunnel iClick wrist pain.
I'm still too shocked for words.
Thanks for the nice Xmas present, RL.
duchess110 (12/10/2015)
This was one of the reasons that I purchased 3dx6 pipeline so more than disappointed with the latest news. Perhaps RL should take it off their product page as I see it is still there as an upcoming feature to follow.
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By Bellatrix - 11 Years Ago
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justaviking (12/10/2015)
mtakerkart (12/10/2015)
...Zbrush is quite expensive...Would such a "silent link" work with Scupltris too? Sculptris is basically a free ("non-pro") version of Zbrush, if I understand correctly. You can take Scupltris files into Zbrush. I'm not certain if it's the exact same file format, and if Zbrush models can be opened by Sculptris.
Sculptris is not a junior/ paired-down ZBrush. It is an indie tool bought by Pixologic.
Daz Studio has only ONE external direct applink. GoZ.
Carrara has only ONE external direct applink. GoZ.
I have both.
There is a $imple reason why GoZ is the only external direct applink for Daz3D.
$$$$$$$ PRO-GRADE 3D ASSETS $$$$$$$$
Zbrush is industry standard for 3D content creators like Maya/Max is for pro animators/riggers.
Not because Sculptris 3Dcoat Blender Hexagon Sketchup are not as useful to iCloners.
ZBrush has a HUGE professional-grade user base.
Even Autodesk is opening a 3D asset marketplace to match their Stingray game engine.
RL/IClone needs pro-grade 3D assets. Lots.
By now most iCloners should be aware of one paradox in CG content:
Creating optimized mid-res game assets is far more inten$ive than Daz3D high-res assets.
There are never enough unique original PRO-GRADE REALTIME/ GAME-FRIENDLY 3D ASSETS.
I emphasized: pro-grade. Real-time.
This is why RL needs iClone-GoZ to work.
Same reason why Max Maya UE Unity get priority.
I know the tri quad applink technical challenge (not specific to ZBrush)
Overcome it and be the first game engine to crack that
RL iClone will gain more than just prograde content creators
RL iClone dev will earn bragging right over other game engines
At the end of the day...
This is not just about peer reputation and business ethics
It is about bu$ine$$ priority.
Invest dev energy wisely
Long view, not piecemeal.
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By RobertoColombo - 11 Years Ago
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I am sorry to say this (because I still "love" this company and their SW), but recently I have hold my money (e.g. 3DX6, CT8 Pro etc.) as I became much more careful about RL announcements or promotional prices.
Their sales market strategy and follow-up implementation has become fuzzy and people start to lose the Trust in what they announce.
I miss the days when iClone 5 popped up so many free updates, each one with something new (it was amazing the jump from 32 to 64 bits for free!), whereas now promised features are taken out and, eventually, restored at a non-negligible price.
I wonder whether they see their revenue still paying back this strategy or starting to evaluate a different approach...
Cheers
Roberto
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By Peter (RL) - 11 Years Ago
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RobertoColombo (12/11/2015)
I miss the days when iClone 5 popped up so many free updates, each one with something new (it was amazing the jump from 32 to 64 bits for free!), whereas now promised features are taken out and, eventually, restored at a non-negligible price.
I can fully understand the disappointment about GoZ but your comment that we have added no new features with iClone 6 is a little off the mark. Did you miss Character Creator? Our upgrade path for iClone 6 has followed the same path as previous versions by adding new features incrementally but by far the biggest FREE upgrade of any version has been Character Creator. :Whistling:
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By Peter (RL) - 11 Years Ago
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duchess110 (12/10/2015)
This was one of the reasons that I purchased 3dx6 pipeline so more than disappointed with the latest news. Perhaps RL should take it off their product page as I see it is still there as an upcoming feature to follow.
Hi Duchess,
It is unfortunate that this information remains. I will ensure that we get this removed asap.
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By RobertoColombo - 11 Years Ago
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(deleted double post)
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By RobertoColombo - 11 Years Ago
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Peter (RL) (12/11/2015)
RobertoColombo (12/11/2015)
I miss the days when iClone 5 popped up so many free updates, each one with something new (it was amazing the jump from 32 to 64 bits for free!), whereas now promised features are taken out and, eventually, restored at a non-negligible price. I can fully understand the disappointment about GoZ but your comment that we have added no new features with iClone 6 is a little off the mark. Did you miss Character Creator? Our upgrade path for iClone 6 has followed the same path as previous versions by adding new features incrementally but by far the biggest FREE upgrade of any version has been Character Creator. :Whistling:
Hi Peter,
No, I did not miss it and I bought the complete CC.
It is a great product indeed and I did not regret to pay for it.
But we can't consider it as a "gift" : a new character system was advertised during the iClone 6 launch and that was one of the reasons that moved me (and probably other customers) to buy iClone 6.
Honestly, I consider the free CC covered by the money spent for iClone 6.
Said that, at iClone launch time, and in the following weeks, we got promises about several features, which have never seen the light: LUA API interface, curve editor, update of Physic Toolbox for iClone6,... just to mention some of them and just for iClone SW.
In addition, some features existing in previous iClone versions have been removed and proposed in an enhanced version at a certain price.
We fully understand that RL is not a charity company and that they need to earn to sustain their business and employers, but given the year 2015 facts, I think it is also fare to express some complains.
Cheers
Roberto
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By Ascensi - 11 Years Ago
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This is the worst news I've heard from Reallusion, actually Reallusion did not formally message customers or make a statement about GoZ. I paid for this add on/iClone 6 around the time that iClone 6 was first announced that would include the said "upcoming enhancements". Daz and Unity support GoZ and 3DXchange supports Daz and Unity.. it seems like 3DXchange has the ability to convert files if needed. I think that Reallusion doesn't believe it would provide any significant financial gain and simply just chooses to spend their time elsewhere. Every time you turn me/us away I discover a different package that actually adds the same functions for less and makes me wonder why I would spend money on Reallusion products especially when they don't come through on their word and the marketing comes across as a bit shady (not forth coming) I also didn't like the fact that the photo face creator for G6 characters was dropped for iClone 6 but available to iClone users only if they buy their Crazy Talk Pipeline - not a plugin - a full program that almost has nothing to do with iClone except for the exporting of the 3D head to iClone/CC. I like the idea of interchangeability between all programs but not to be forced to buy a program for one feature that should have been continued in original program. I like all of Reallusion's programs but not the marketing nor the silence of dropping development on features we were told were coming - it just seems like it was there to entice customers.
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By Rampa - 11 Years Ago
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GOZ struck me as sexy, but not adding much to iClone/3DXchange usefulness. Those of who have the know-how to make use of such a feature also know how to use the "Replace Mesh" Feature. You would still need to maintain poly-count and vertex order anyway. This stuff is technical enough that only a small percentage of users even do it anyway. It would've been kind of redundant. It's not really iClone's demographic.
It's not a useful enough feature to warrant the development expense.
I'm glad they are not putting more resources towards it. There are much more important basic features to work on that will make the software better for all users.
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By hattori kun - 11 Years Ago
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Oh man! I was really looking forward to Goz.
Its an awesome tool for me.
I think I need to be careful which products to buy from RL from now on. Indigo has not been updated for almost a year and the bug with duplicated mesh and textures still not addressed making it useless for animation.
I skipped CT8 even though it has the face map feature. Its too much jumping through hoops to use another module for the face map feature. I hope silent export is still planned for 3dx.
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By Bellatrix - 11 Years Ago
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RobertoColombo (12/11/2015)
[quote]
Said that, at iClone launch time, and in the following weeks, we got promises about several features, which have never seen the light: LUA API interface, curve editor, update of Physic Toolbox for iClone6
Thank you for emphasizing the pink elephant in this room
And noticed the greater implication
And recognized that we are all in this together
And not acting like we need to fight over breadcrumbs of dev time
If they promised 3Dcoat/ Blender applink and then dropped the cancel bomb in such blase manner
I will still be aghast and not cheer for the misery/loss of others
Because of good form on the forum
because of good spirit for fellow artists
because We Are All In The Same Boat
----
And thanks to other intelligent forum members with big picture awareness and long view:
That this particular advertised features cancellation is BEYOND the relatively minor issue of dev resources allocation.
This is an issue of business ethics, trust, and confidence.
Happy holidays.
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By Bellatrix - 11 Years Ago
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Ascensi (12/28/2015)
This is the worst news I've heard from Reallusion, actually Reallusion did not formally message customers or make a statement about GoZ. I paid for this add on/iClone 6 around the time that iClone 6 was first announced that would include the said "upcoming enhancements". Daz and Unity support GoZ and 3DXchange supports Daz and Unity.. it seems like 3DXchange has the ability to convert files if needed.
I like all of Reallusion's programs but not the marketing nor the silence of dropping development on features we were told were coming - it just seems like it was there to entice customers.
I agree. The last bit is what worries me the most: PR, public perception
I want to be optimistic and defend RL and say this is not a bait and switch
I want to be positive and speculate - as people do when things are left hanging
hanging...as in "probably..." "indefinitely..." "can't confirmed dead or coma..."
that the advertised GoZ and Silent I/O is probably still being developed...
Right now I stick to WISIWIG
What I see is what I get
Good on you to make your voice heard though :)
Cheers
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By Bellatrix - 11 Years Ago
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hattori kun (12/28/2015)
Oh man! I was really looking forward to Goz.
Its an awesome tool for me.
I think I need to be careful which products to buy from RL from now on. Indigo has not been updated for almost a year and the bug with duplicated mesh and textures still not addressed making it useless for animation.
I skipped CT8 even though it has the face map feature. Its too much jumping through hoops to use another module for the face map feature. I hope silent export is still planned for 3dx.
Didn't know you're a ZBrush user too Hattori...
Shouldn't be surprised, lots of Lightwave and Modo users on Pixologic forums
Lots of ZBrush talk on Newtek forums too, possibly one of the friendliest and brainiest middleware forum I've lurked on
Jumping through hoops between plugins is also the biggest deterrant for me
And I guess, for any iClone user who actually model/ texture a few things from scratch
I'm still not giving up hope though
Market trend is Game engine + DCC tool marriage
Live Link Marriage...to be specific
after Autodesk "betrayed" Unreal and Unity, marry Max/Maya to StingRay
Game engines are quietly freaking out, even (especially?) Cryengine
DCC tools ZBrush 3Dcoat Blender Modo LightWave will be aggressively courted by game engines
Expect lots of game engine to DCCs Direct Live Links next year
IClone is game engine with sexy interface
with no 3D live link to any DCC tools
even Daz3D or Poser know the importance of DCCs direct link
But some people believe iClone could continue to live like a bachelor
subsist on current pool of novice users and 3D content makers!
And no need for SDK too!
Miracles do happen, who knows... :)
Bottomline...direct link, live link all important
No pros, game devs or small studio, would put up with tangled internal links or hoops jumping in current state
First IClone needs to sort its own self-generated mess of internal links
noisy tangled hoops and clunky daisy chained plugin
while staying relevant and linked to external DCCs
Still betting on RL seeing the $$$ in their PROsumers
So don't give up hope totally :)
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By RobertoColombo - 11 Years Ago
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Bellatrix (12/28/2015)
RobertoColombo (12/11/2015)
[quote]
Said that, at iClone launch time, and in the following weeks, we got promises about several features, which have never seen the light: LUA API interface, curve editor, update of Physic Toolbox for iClone6
Thank you for emphasizing the pink elephant in this room And noticed the greater implication And recognized that we are all in this together And not acting like we need to fight over breadcrumbs of dev time If they promised 3Dcoat/ Blender applink and then dropped the cancel bomb in such blase manner I will still be aghast and not cheer for the misery/loss of others Because of good form on the forum because of good spirit for fellow artists because We Are All In The Same Boat ---- And thanks to other intelligent forum members with big picture awareness and long view: That this particular advertised features cancellation is BEYOND the relatively minor issue of dev resources allocation. This is an issue of business ethics, trust, and confidence. Happy holidays.
Hi there,
in total honesty, I haven't understood clearly your post... :)
My fault: I am not an English mother language speaker and have still a limited visibility/understanding of CGA world.
I am happy that I am able to start decoding posts of other technical/experienced users (e.g. sw00000p, whose posts now to me, represent now a precious resource, and after self-studying some topics, starting to recognize what I studied in his posts), but with you I am almost at the start line... despite I "recognize" the voice/expertise of somebody well placed in this market/CGA world.
After reading your answer, I was left with a doubt: do you agree with what I said or don't you ? :blink:
I got the feeling you are.... correct ? :ermm:
Thanks
Cheers
Roberto
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By Bellatrix - 11 Years Ago
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RobertoColombo (12/28/2015)
Hi there,
in total honesty, I haven't understood clearly your post... :)
My fault: I am not an English mother language speaker and have still a limited visibility/understanding of CGA world.
I am happy that I am able to start decoding posts of other technical/experienced users (e.g. sw00000p, whose posts now to me, represent now a precious resource, and after self-studying some topics, starting to recognize what I studied in his posts), but with you I am almost at the start line... despite I "recognize" the voice/expertise of somebody well placed in this market/CGA world.
After reading your answer, I was left with a doubt: do you agree with what I said or don't you ? :blink:
I got the feeling you are.... correct ? :ermm:
Correct! lol...
Not your fault... CG is a super opaque language, indeed
My impression is, your English is "normal"...
so I haven't adjusted my typical "compressed" style of talking...
Sorry lol...
Allow me to reword my earlier response to you...
Thank you for saying something like...
"living up to promised features is important to customers"
because the obvious is, betraying customers trust repeatedly is not a good thing
for ALL involved
And it needs to be said more
Especially on this forum
So I'm glad you said it :)
(clearer, I hope?)
(And then I went to next gear "talking to the general forum including you" mode...)
As fellow iCloners are licking wound, feeling shortchanged...going ouch...
A few who aren't affected by XYZ cancellation like to jump in and celebrate
"Victory! This cancelled feature is not important to me! KILL IT so my wish list gets more dev priority!"
and missed the point of Business Ethics 101
As if this is some kind of desperate contest for daddy's special favors lol
I have never seen this myopic self-defeating behavior so frequent anywhere else
Are we iCloners really this desperate?
So why behave in such divided manner?
Perhaps there should be an ANTI-WISHLIST subforum ;)
That's why I'm glad
a few non-ZBrushers here could see the bigger picture...
that what hurt other users may hurt you too...
what benefit other users may benefit you too...
Most normal intelligent reasonable adults could see...
a simple truth:
even if the disappointing "shortchange" is not done on purpose, or bad faith
it still has to be addressed, explained, redressed
Thanks for being intelligent and having far sight :)
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By RobertoColombo - 11 Years Ago
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Hi Bellatrix,
thanks for taking the time to answer.
I am one of those many Italians, who, depressed by our ministers and politics, decided to work abroad (and I've never regret about this!), so my English had to improve a bit.... ;)
Still, the story of the "pink elephant" left me at a loss :P
RL product remains great, but I hope they will understand that removing important features (the last one I've discovered is the possibility to add new groups/category to the Motion Puppet tool) can cause old and new customers to hold their money, if they are not 100% sure about what they buy.
Personally, I am now much more cautious now vs. the new promised features...
Cheers
Roberto
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By will2power71 - 11 Years Ago
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What disappoints me about this whole GoZ thing is that in your advertising materials, you show us a G6 Mesh that's in Quads. Now in reading the forums, I find that is not the case. For those of you who don't know what I"m talking about, check out the promotional video of Iclone 6 at time index 51 seconds into the video, you will see a G6 mesh that's done in quads.
You will also note that the mesh is in Zbrush already. It's been my experience that you are more inclined to see a triangulated mesh in games and that you see quad based meshes in animation. This to me says that G6 was a perfectly compatible Zbrush mesh until someone triangulated it so that you can't use it in Zbrush. I'm glad that I downloaded the free version of the character creator before I purchased the full version because that alone is reason enough to stay the hell away. The lack of GoZ and a quad based mesh has essentially put me off on exploring using iclone G6. For now, I'm just going to stick with Genesis 2/3 DAZ figures which offer much more flexibility and CAN be taken into Zbrush and back all day long.
If I had no experience with modeling, I would have jumped on the Character creator. But after giving it a test drive, I decided not to for that reason. I can get just as much versatility out of DAZ models and I don't have to wait for someone to decide to support Zbrush or Mudbox or any of the other Modeling packages. There's no way in hell that I would even try to do work on a triangulated mesh. No Quads plus no Zbrush = no interest in Character Creator.
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By Peter (RL) - 11 Years Ago
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We are very sorry for the disappointment caused in regards to the missing GoZ and silent IO features.
When we announced the plans for these features it was certainly done in good faith. However as with all plans things can change and sadly there are currently technical hurdles that are proving difficult to solve. The biggest issue is that the majority of iClone models are made with tris polygons. To get the most out of Zbrush, the model has to be optimized in quad polygons. Without quad polygons it will be difficult to smooth and sculpt any 3D models. In addition, ZBrush itself is very destructive in terms of keeping the original vertex order. Any disruption with the vertex order will mess up the animation rig and cause major problems when bringing back to iClone for animation.
The bottom line is we were a bit optimistic in the beginning in hoping that we can solve these technical issues during the 6.x cycle, however we still hope you can get the most out of 3DXchange with its flexible output. You can always bring OBJ to ZBrush anytime you wish, just through a slightly more complicated manner.
One good thing to note is that we will try to incorporate at least some part of the Silent I/O feature into CC early next year. This is still in planning but we hope to have more details for everyone in the coming weeks.
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By bluemidget666 - 11 Years Ago
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I hope one day soon to be working with Quad meshes from CC to Zbrush but this has me scratching my head..
"In addition, ZBrush itself is very destructive in terms of keeping the original vertex order. Any disruption with the vertex order will mess up the animation rig and cause major problems when bringing back to iClone for animation"
Not if you know what you are doing its not.
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By will2power71 - 11 Years Ago
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bluemidget666 (12/30/2015)
I hope one day soon to be working with Quad meshes from CC to Zbrush but this has me scratching my head..
"In addition, ZBrush itself is very destructive in terms of keeping the original vertex order. Any disruption with the vertex order will mess up the animation rig and cause major problems when bringing back to iClone for animation"
Not if you know what you are doing its not.
If you didn't say it, I would have. People have been sculpting morphs in Zbrush for years and Peter's assessment is definitely contradictory to what I have learned in using it. If you don't set up to sculpt properly and you pick the wrong tools, of course you can break the vertex order, but you can do that just as easily in Maya, 3DS Max and any other modeling software if you change the the mesh.
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By animagic - 11 Years Ago
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It's also ironic, because I seem to recall iClone tutorials from RL that include the use of Zbrush to sculpt the mesh.
@will2power: mesh in iClone has always been triangulated for rendering efficiency reasons, so I don't know why it would be shown in quads.
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By will2power71 - 11 Years Ago
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animagic (12/31/2015)@will2power: mesh in iClone has always been triangulated for rendering efficiency reasons, so I don't know why it would be shown in quads.
I just pointed out what I saw in the promotional video which was part of what caused me to consider moving to iclone 6 from DAZ. I had tried out iclone a long time ago and ran into issues with the meshes being triangulated. The thing is, when most people work in models, they do it in quads and then triangulate it. Which means that the meshes exist as quad meshes which is backed up by the fact that they're in Zbrush as Quad Meshes. Quad meshes are animation friendly which was why I bought Iclone 6. Upon discovering the meshes were triangulated, I thought that would change when GoZ came out.
There's no reason to triangulate the mesh in Iclone. It handles quad meshes completely fine. I get the sense that they do it to prevent exactly what everyone is wanting GoZ for, which is customization. If you're able to send the mesh out Iclone to Zbrush via GoZ, then who's to stop you from using that to bypass Iclone's Export license. Pixologic is obviously not going to hamstring Zbrush for Iclone, so from what I see, the problem isn't a technical one, it's a business one. Still, it pisses me off that what was that the Zbrush images in the promo, which obviously was a selling point for DAZ pilgrims like me, is in fact --NOT a feature of Iclone. This wasn't something Reallusion hinted at --they advertised it as a primary feature of G6 --something it is clearly not. That would be like a car dealer promising you a Porsche, and then when you go to pickup your car you find that you've got a Porsche body with the guts of a Nissan. If Zbrush wasn't ready to go at the time they started selling it, then they should have never put it in the promotional materials. You're selling a feature that you don't have. This isn't sitting well with me.
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By hattori kun - 11 Years Ago
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Peter (RL) (12/30/2015)
ZBrush itself is very destructive in terms of keeping the original vertex order. Any disruption with the vertex order will mess up the animation rig and cause major problems when bringing back to iClone for animation.
Peter atleast let us create displacements and rgb textures to and from zbrush directly with goz if you're worried about vertex order. That doesn't mess with vertex info. Thats what I wanted to do with 3dx goz.
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By Bellatrix - 11 Years Ago
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bluemidget666 (12/30/2015) this has me scratching my head..
"In addition, ZBrush itself is very destructive in terms of keeping the original vertex order. Any disruption with the vertex order will mess up the animation rig and cause major problems when bringing back to iClone for animation"
Not if you know what you are doing its not.
Had me scratching my head too lol :)
But I don't think it is a straw man* attempt...
*For non-English speakers: Straw Man = blame issue C then solve issue C, to shift the focus away from much bigger issues A and B
Maybe it's just communication somehow got lost between dev and forum admin...
Zbrush is not at all "destructive with keeping vertex order" of imported triangulated meshes.
Zbrush is on par with industry standard peers in this area...
Max Maya Blender Modo and Renderosity content producers would know...
Even first month CG game asset student would know. So I won't elaborate...
As to alleged ZBrush being naughty messing up anim rig vertex order....
"Any disruption with the vertex order will mess up the animation rig and cause major problems when bringing back to iClone for animation"
Whether it is via manual I/O or GoZ, if users simply follow standard practice...
Zbrush doesn't mess up Daz Genesis animation rig from Daz Studio...
Zbrush doesn't mess up Genesis / V4/ Poser / Carrara native animation rig from Carrara...
(incl base character mesh alone/ with conforming multi-layer clothing, with/out physics)
Zbrush doesn't mess up Max/ Maya/ Blender/ Lightwave animation rigs back and forth...
As long as....users simply follow standard practice...
As long as...their GoZ or Asset I/O is out of beta/ gold/ WIP phase... :)
One day, hopefully in the near future...
Zbrush will also not mess up Reallusion engine triangulated RL animation rig vertex order too!
One day...
But I must not be distracted...
because...
Some form of GoZ is still better than non-delivery!
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By Bellatrix - 11 Years Ago
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Peter (RL) (12/30/2015)Without quad polygons it will be difficult to smooth and sculpt any 3D models. In addition, ZBrush itself is very destructive in terms of keeping the original vertex order. Any disruption with the vertex order will mess up the animation rig and cause major problems when bringing back to iClone for animation.
It is nice to hear some kind of official feedback and explanation. Appreciated...
Without a functioning direct link between native rig and an industry standard modeler/sculptor, it will be difficult to grow pro-grade 3D assets and RL marketplace ecology?
Mean time, I like to focus on what can be done in the here and now...
As in
What Can Still Be Done to Deliver a Functioning IClone-GoZ As Promised
Recap: GoZ details advertised on official 3DX page
(see pic, also numeric pts mine)
GoZ - ZBrush Edit and Update
ZBrush, the tool for designers with the art mind will soon be able
to seamlessly connect you with iClone. By selecting a target item
in iClone and pressing the GoZ option, you will be able to
- easily reshape a model
- sculpt a new character morph, or
- make realistic texture painting in ZBrush.
- The new design will also allow for fast importing of ZBrush objects as iClone props with one simple click.
GoZ, the super highway for iClone content modification, refinement and creation.
As mentioned by other members here, CC vertex order issues aside - nothing is stopping the delivery of the following- GoZ to add new CC Expression Morph
- GoZ G5 G3 to add Expression Morphs
- fast importing of ZBrush object as iClone props with one simple click
- easily rehape of (static) model (triangulated mesh)
- one click load any diff/spec/opa/disp map texture paint in ZBrush
As a generous and forgiving customer
I will settle for a 75% GoZ - for now, and wait for delivery of the rest
That's just my position though, won't speak for other ZBrushers here. :)
And thanks again for showing that 3DXchange6 GoZ buyers are not disposable.
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By RobertoColombo - 11 Years Ago
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Bellatrix (12/31/2015)
But I don't think it is a straw man* attempt...
*For non-English speakers: Straw Man = blame issue C then solve issue C, to shift the focus away from much bigger issues A and B
LOVE IT, Bellatrix!!! :w00t:
Now from your posts I can learn both CGA things and English way of saying too
:)
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By Ascensi - 10 Years Ago
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Goz should still be integrated for painting characters, painting and sculpting objects, posing statues/non skinned characters to start. I've contacted support about this issue and put in some suggestions. Just to be clear Zbrush also works with tris http://docs.pixologic.com/user-guide/3d-modeling/modeling-basics/what-is-a-polymesh/ Goz seems to work with importing/exporting obj http://pixologic.com/zbrush/features/GoZBrush/
As far as I understand, Zbrush aims to be transparent unless you want to change something i.e. remesh, dynamesh, subdivide etc. The only thing I see that might have to be changed in Goz is to disable this part: "GoZ™ will take care of simple operations such as correcting points & polygons order, as well as more advanced operations that require complete remapping." - but I'm no programmer and I don't assume to know more than Reallusion's team what they can or can't do with their software but because Zbrush is pretty flexible and Robust it might have some details that might of been overlooked to make GoZ possible with 3Dxchange..
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By Sen - 10 Years Ago
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Hello ,
Yes Zbrush can work with tri , but it's not recommended .
Just a quick example : take the 3d sphere , initiliaze to 16 hdivide , make a polymesh 3d and subdivide 1 or more , look at the pole ;) .
Always keep in mind the subdivide process .
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By animagic - 10 Years Ago
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@will2power: I understand that you are disappointed and upset. On the other hand, the promotion video shows the modeling of the characters, which is obviously done outside iClone and done with quads. You would have seen the same for earlier generation characters. The characters are then tri-angulated for use in iClone. I don't conclude from that video that the characters would stay as quads in iClone, and they are certainly not triangulated to make a Z-brush connection impossible. Misleading would have been if RL had stated that G6 characters would be in quads but I have never seen evidence of that.
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By will2power71 - 10 Years Ago
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animagic (1/2/2016)
@will2power: I understand that you are disappointed and upset. On the other hand, the promotion video shows the modeling of the characters, which is obviously done outside iClone and done with quads. You would have seen the same for earlier generation characters. The characters are then tri-angulated for use in iClone. I don't conclude from that video that the characters would stay as quads in iClone, and they are certainly not triangulated to make a Z-brush connection impossible. Misleading would have been if RL had stated that G6 characters would be in quads but I have never seen evidence of that.
Excuse me if I don't agree with your assessment. I might be inclined to agree with you if they had showed G6's actual geometry in anywhere in the promo.
"Brand new one piece G6 Characters are designed for versatile body morphing capabilities..." Those were the exact words of the promo while showing off quad topology in Zbrush.
You'll note that they did not show it's actual topology anywhere in that same promo. Reallusion misrepresented the G6 topology by showing it as quads in Zbrush and talking about it's morphing capabilities . Nowhere else in that promo did they show the G6 actual topology. I have gone through all of their promotional materials and nowhere have they shown the G6 characters actual topology. I find that highly suspicious. You can give that a pass if you want to. I do not. At this point, I'm not very impressed with G6 and I won't be adopting it in any fashion as long as it's a triangulated mesh. And I'm inclined to be much more cautious about believing Reallusion advertising because of this. I'm sorry but you get one chance to make a good impression when it comes to truth in advertising and this whole thing has made me re-evaluate investing any more time and money in when there are other alternatives that are just as versatile and less restrictive when it comes to character customization that's animation friendly. There are plenty of things I don't like about DAZ Studio, but their models are first rate and the customization options are just as powerful. It's bad enough that you have to purchase an export license to use them outside of Iclone, on top of what you're already spending for 3Dxchange and the Character Creator. Both together is over a seven hundred dollar investment to get models that are triangulated. I'm just chalking this up as a learning experience with Reallusion not to take what they say at face value without serious consideration.
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By Ascensi - 10 Years Ago
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I've talked with Tech support, apparently GoZ hasn't been dropped completely. Some things we have mentioned here have been agreed upon that is workable but they said the other issues (working with sculpting Characters for example) development overall is delayed/unknown at this time. I'm thankful at least that it hasn't completely been abandoned.
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By Bellatrix - 10 Years Ago
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Ascensi (1/6/2016)
I've talked with Tech support, apparently GoZ hasn't been dropped completely. Some things we have mentioned here have been agreed upon that is workable but they said the other issues (working with sculpting Characters for example) development overall is delayed/unknown at this time. I'm thankful at least that it hasn't completely been abandoned.
Just noticed this post
There was never any reason to drop a major advertised product feature completely because 1 out of 4 of its promised functions is unfinished.
But good to know GoZ is a work in progress :)
Thanks for the heads up
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By GreedyPeopleSuck - 9 Years Ago
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I hope this becomes a thing. Avoiding Blender/Maya would be great.
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