|
By pmaina - 9 Years Ago
|
Points of interest (according to their website - I don't have the software)
* Facial mocap
* 360 degrees body rotation!
* According to Brekel.com "rewritten to fully utilize all the data of the Kinect v2 sensor"
* Compatibility: "supports BVH format in Generic / Autodesk HumanIK, 3DMax Biped, Poser / Daz flavors"
* A bit Expensive at $239 for both body and facial mocap bundle ($139 each)
My thoughts: Oh my, certain expensive and cumbersome motion capture solutions might be rendered OBSOLETE even before they are released!
Discuss.
|
|
By Kelleytoons - 9 Years Ago
|
Actually, I've been corresponding with him (Brekel).
It won't do full body rotation -- that may be possible in the future but will require more than one Kinect AND more than one PC (so, not at all :> .
The facial stuff won't translate well into iClone. At least not with any iClone characters (with your own non-standard human ones, like Daz Genesis, you could do it).
I have some of the test files as well as the demo and will be testing. It does *some* finger stuff (limited but obviously better than iClone's plugin) and seems very responsive.
|
|
By Rampa - 9 Years Ago
|
I was reading their forum yesterday, and it noted that hand rotation is reliant on seeing the thumb orientation. So, if you get floopy hands, make sure your thumbs are visible. You can also put your Kinect at head level so it's looking slightly down at your hands.
It can support multiple skeletons at the same time AFAIK, but they must all be facing the camera, of course.
|
|
By Kelleytoons - 9 Years Ago
|
|
It will be interesting to see how it matches up (although with only 4 seconds to test they will be *very* short tests :>.
|
|
By pmaina - 9 Years Ago
|
Kelleytoons (11/9/2015)
Actually, I've been corresponding with him (Brekel). It won't do full body rotation -- that may be possible in the future but will require more than one Kinect AND more than one PC (so, not at all :> .
That's interesting. This guy claims he managed to do it with Brekel Free (and no editing!). He says its about finding optimum position/distance (and possibly wearing the right clothes as well - based on my own googling). Can you please share with Brekel and let us know his thoughts about this? Thanks!
|
|
By Kelleytoons - 9 Years Ago
|
I had actually seen that video before I even got iClone's mocap for KV2 and was disappointed when iClone wouldn't do that.
On closer examination, though, I see a lot of artifacts as he turns -- and he turns fast. Brekel said that once you are in a turn the Kinect can't tell the back from the front and I could see why this would be an issue. When that guy turns one of the arms goes through the body, because the Kinect gets confused about things. Obviously this could be edited, but it would be a PITA.
The other thing I'm finding (and admittedly it's hard because the test software only allows 4 seconds of capture) is the legs aren't captured as well as the iClone plugin does. I need to do some more tests and see what's up, but so far it appears that Brekel has better upper body and RL has better lower body. It's just too bad we can't combine them <g>.
|
|
By pmaina - 9 Years Ago
|
Thanks for the feedback Kelleytoons. Very much appreciated. I found something else that could be better than Brekel. Thought it deserves its own thread to keep things neat & tidy. Please see my new post if you may, about ipiSoft for Kinect. Would be happy to read your thoughts about it.
|
|
By Kelleytoons - 9 Years Ago
|
Yeah, I've looked at that other and it doesn't interest me due to several issues.
There are some "fixes" apparently for the foot issues that I need to try. I'm also looking very seriously at his superb hand capture software, which would do all I'd ever need for full finger stuff (and if I can nail down the body stuff that essentially means I do not need to worry about any mocap suit, which is basically a PITA anyway).
|
|
By AlbinosGambit - 4 Years Ago
|
I see this is a very old thread.
But I have a Kinect V2 and was hoping to get facial, finger and body animation. Are there any updates for the Kinect V2?
Kelleytoons (11/10/2015)
Yeah, I've looked at that other and it doesn't interest me due to several issues.
There are some "fixes" apparently for the foot issues that I need to try. I'm also looking very seriously at his superb hand capture software, which would do all I'd ever need for full finger stuff (and if I can nail down the body stuff that essentially means I do not need to worry about any mocap suit, which is basically a PITA anyway).
|
|
By animagic - 4 Years Ago
|
|
AlbinosGambit (4/17/2020)
I see this is a very old thread.
But I have a Kinect V2 and was hoping to get facial, finger and body animation. Are there any updates for the Kinect V2?
Short answer is "no".
Kinect was more or less abandoned by Microsoft at some point and, frankly, RL wasn't very successful with developing their own Mocap solution. So they have wisely chosen to build an interface to Mocap solutions from companies that specialize in those things.
|
|
By AlbinosGambit - 4 Years Ago
|
I see...
RL has the Xbox Kinect Mocap plugin, if that what you mean? I tried the trial, but to be blunt, it was useless.
Do you know any software for kinect v2 that can take advantage of its mocaping capabilities? Like facial, finger and full body in a decent way? Any other solutions, that is cheap a DIY Mocap studio? Any ideas?
animagic (4/17/2020)
AlbinosGambit (4/17/2020)
I see this is a very old thread.
But I have a Kinect V2 and was hoping to get facial, finger and body animation. Are there any updates for the Kinect V2?Short answer is "no". Kinect was more or less abandoned by Microsoft at some point and, frankly, RL wasn't very successful with developing their own Mocap solution. So they have wisely chosen to build an interface to Mocap solutions from companies that specialize in those things.
|
|
By animagic - 4 Years Ago
|
|
Mike Kelley would be more qualified to answer this as he has tried out many solutions over the years, but he would probably tell you that cheap Mocap (like for $100) that is NOT utterly frustrating and disappointing doesn't exit. I don't have body Mocap, but I would probably get the Perception Neuron suit. For facial animation I have Faceware, but the iPhone solution is better apparently and also cheaper.
|
|
By Kelleytoons - 4 Years Ago
|
Well, since Job mentioned me...
Yeah, I've been through, if not all, at least all of the cheaper mocap solutions over the years. The Kinect iPisoft was pretty decent (and still exists) and is at least worth checking out, but it was SO much work and still not great (but on a budget...). If you don't have MUCH mocap (say just a tiny bit once a month or so) the phone capture mocap system looks worth investigating: however, it doesn't (apparently) work with iClone yet (at least check, a few months ago, the samples could not be used in iClone).
But other than that -- yep, biting the bullet and getting the PN suit (now discounted to around $1300 or so) is your best bet. It's quality capture that consistently works, and the price will never be better (you do not need any additional software -- while you *can* use Motion Live, I actually get the best results using the software that comes with the suit on its own). If you don't have that much (and can't save up for it) then don't mess with anything else until you CAN save up -- there is a lot of animation you can do without mocap (learning to use the editor inside of iClone will become a very useful skill).
For facial capture there IS nothing better than Live Face, IMHO. If you have an iPhone it's a no-brainer (only a few hundred dollars). Without an iPhone/iPad Pro it's more expensive, of course, but if you score a deal on a used XR (you don't need service) it would be worth it.
|
|
By animagic - 4 Years Ago
|
Thanks Mike, for chiming in. Rather than trying to paraphrase you, I thought I might try to get your attention...
|
|
By AlbinosGambit - 4 Years Ago
|
Hi.
I was also considering to get Perception Neuron and thats the best value for money, but still expensive considering the difficult situation with Covid Virus.
Faceware how does that work? I thought that was the same as iPhone?
animagic (4/18/2020)
Mike Kelley would be more qualified to answer this as he has tried out many solutions over the years, but he would probably tell you that cheap Mocap (like for $100) that is NOT utterly frustrating and disappointing doesn't exit. I don't have body Mocap, but I would probably get the Perception Neuron suit. For facial animation I have Faceware, but the iPhone solution is better apparently and also cheaper.
|
|
By Kelleytoons - 4 Years Ago
|
Faceware (around $1300 for just the base software -- you still need Motion Live base) will work with almost any webcam of 720HD or more.
The iPhone solution for software is much cheaper (around $200 when I bought it) but, of course, you need the phone. You can get a used XR (about your cheapest option) for around $600 when I last looked. But Live Face performs better than Faceware, IMHO.
|
|
By AlbinosGambit - 4 Years Ago
|
Hi Kelley.
You are so active and take the time to answer many of us and sharing your knowledge, I do really appreciate that, thank you!
So to use Faceware you need:
Faceware 1190USD
Motion LIVE 100USD
The Iphone solution, you need
iPhone ( LIVE FACE ) 299USD +
Motion LIVE 100USD
You say Live Face performs better than Faceware? What is live Face? You mean the iPhone package?
How come the iPhone solution performs better than the more expensive Faceware?
So you recommend buying the iPhone solution? I am considering to buy a used iPhone:-)
I think RL´s webpage does a really bad job of explaining what you actually need to get into facial animation. You would also need 3DXchange Pipeline to get all this to work?
I am so confused by RL´s shop of explaining this clearly
Kelleytoons (4/21/2020)
Faceware (around $1300 for just the base software -- you still need Motion Live base) will work with almost any webcam of 720HD or more.
The iPhone solution for software is much cheaper (around $200 when I bought it) but, of course, you need the phone. You can get a used XR (about your cheapest option) for around $600 when I last looked. But Live Face performs better than Faceware, IMHO.
|
|
By Kelleytoons - 4 Years Ago
|
Yes, Live Face is the name of the iPhone software.
It performs better in some regards. For one thing, it's nowhere near as critical in lighting (in Faceware you need very even light whereas with Live Face I can practically record in the dark). I also can't wear my glasses with Faceware -- Live Face ignores them. And I do think it's slightly more responsive -- not a ton, but just a bit better. I have both and I rarely use Faceware anymore.
You don't need 3DXChange at all for this to work. Essentially you bring up Motion Live, select the avatar, and then "attach" or activate the plugin you are using (either Faceware or Live Face). You then record the mocap directly in iClone, onto your avatar.
|