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By sterlingy - 11 Years Ago
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I'm sorry for posting such a newbie question. At this point, I should know the answer, but I've simply been consuming too much info about iClone lately.
Aside from the obvious higher quality mesh for G6 characters, is there any technical difference between G5 and G6 characters? Are there any compatibility issues to consider? Clothing issues?
~Sterling
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By vidi - 11 Years Ago
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Hi Sterling
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By Rampa - 11 Years Ago
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The G5 meshes consisted of 5 main body parts (upper, lower, head, hands, feet). The clothing, whether or a separate layer, was integrated with these 5 parts.
The G6 avatars are a single part for the entire body (Think DAZ), and the clothing is not part of it, also like DAZ.
There is zero compatability between the two.
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By primaveranz - 11 Years Ago
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BTW that should be "Stick with the FLOCK end up a lamb chop" ;)
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By sterlingy - 11 Years Ago
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vidi (9/1/2015)
Yes for customized G6 Character will get soon a Creator Tool.:)
Vidi,
I've been eyeballing this lately, and I'm drooling. Was hoping to dig in tonight, but I can wait a few more days.
-Sterling
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By sterlingy - 11 Years Ago
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primaveranz (9/1/2015)
BTW that should be "Stick with the FLOCK end up a lamb chop" ;)
When you're right, you're right!
~S
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By sterlingy - 11 Years Ago
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rampa (9/1/2015)
The G5 meshes consisted of 5 main body parts (upper, lower, head, hands, feet). The clothing, whether or a separate layer, was integrated with these 5 parts.
The G6 avatars are a single part for the entire body (Think DAZ), and the clothing is not part of it, also like DAZ.
There is zero compatability between the two.
Groovy (not), so how do I know if something on the market place or Daz is compatible with G6? I assume a motion files work with both G6 and G5, right?
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By Rampa - 11 Years Ago
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Stirlingy,
G6 is a unique format, topology, etc. It is not DAZ. I mentioned that because the body is one piece like DAZ bodies. AFAIK it is a single mesh that is morphed into all the different characters, male and female. Remember, we're film-makers, optimization isn't terribly important.
Any iMotion works just fine. VNS motions can be renamed "iMotion", I believe. I would strongly suggest you not buy any avatars from the marketplace right now, unless they are extremely specific for a project you are working on. The CC will not be able to modify them. It's a one way trip. Once exported to iClone, they cannot go back to CC. They should go to 3DX just fine, though. DAZ has it's own pathway through 3DX into iClone, and is not compatible. You cannot just add DAZ clothing to G6.
Sw00000p,
Sorry they are clothed, I have no nudes. You can probably make something of this image though. The back-faces are always culled in iClone wireframe.
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By sterlingy - 11 Years Ago
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rampa (9/1/2015)
I would strongly suggest you not buy any avatars from the marketplace right now, unless they are extremely specific for a project you are working on. The CC will not be able to modify them. It's a one way trip.
Rampa,
Thanks for that information. On the one hand, perhaps it will save me some moola. On the other, I'm concerned about how much cc will be able to customize its characters. For normal looking humans, it looks amazing. I'm interested in more cartoony looking characters, but not as extreme as the avatars in Toon Maker 1 & 2.
Even if CC is capable of this, what about the clothes?! I could make my own, providing they proved the required assets. I'm not sure how all that works for iClone. I have a long history with 3DS Max, so if it is part of the pipeline, I can do it. Marvelous Designer also looks interesting, though I've never used it, and I'm not sure its assets can be brought into iClone. I suppose 3DS Max could be used as an intermediary.
The bottom line is that I would like to do less work, not more, so it seems that for the foreseeable future, G6/CC might keep me up later into the night.
-Sterling
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By Rampa - 11 Years Ago
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Yeah. If they match your needs, then tery're fine. If you have Max, you can certainly make your own avatars. I've done a few conversions of avatars I made with Makehuman and the Autodesk Character Generator. Any FBX biped can be characterized (re-targeted) in 3DXchange Pro or Pipeline. Fuse characters are fine as well. All of these (except for DAZzies with the duf file) must have the visemes and expressions mapped manually.
Several Marketplace developers use Marvelous designer to make clothing that they then rig and weight with their avatars in Max or Blender, or whatever.
So, there is tons of flexibility for getting avatars into iClone.
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By sterlingy - 11 Years Ago
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Truth be told, I'm playing around with iClone for a simple project. But, nothing in my life is ever simple. I always find a way to push the envelope. I simply love the animation interface, though I've found some hurdles, some of which you've helped me work around. In the end. There are some glaring features missing, and I'm not talking about sophisticated stuff either, just general functionality.
Coupled with future adaptation of Perception Neuron MoCap, I think it will be a beautiful platform.
BUT... I sometimes wonder if I should just stick with Max, which I own? On the other hand, I'd like to get Autodesk out of my life, and throwing a rigged character in iClone, tossing on some iMotion clips and using the lip-sync feature (which is about to get much better), is such a breeze, it's hard to pass up. I just have to get used to working within the limits of the software.
Do you know of any good demo videos showing the MAX to iClone pipeline? Also, can you import an FBX object with an animated mesh, for a simple example, a sphere morphing into a box?
You can see a very old sample of my Max work here: Meet Blip
~Sterling
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By Dragonskunk - 11 Years Ago
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Sorry they are clothed, I have no nudes. You can probably make something of this image though. The back-faces are always culled in iClone wireframe.
At first I was thinking hey why are my backfaces not culled... oh yeah, I use reversed backface culling for my toon lines... right.
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By animatom - 11 Years Ago
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Nice little movie, steringly. Thank you for sharing it.
About importing morphs into iClone - yes, you can import it, but not directly as we would like it. See this Reallusion video about the subject and video of morphing car (imported from Max) from one recent iClone contest.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_InQZateGbM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhgvXXw5PBg
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By sterlingy - 11 Years Ago
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Thanks Animatom,
Funny thing about my animation is that it took a farm of computers to render. The DOF shot was tapping out at 22 hours per frame. We didn't have all this fancy GPU stuff back then. It was rendered with Brazil, RIP, and that was at standard definition!
So, the Reallusion video is pretty clear, and not too over involved. But it brings up another scenario; how would one make an animated tear drop that flows down a character's cheek? Under normal circumstances, the tear would be a fluid sim, and the animation of it's points would be cached. The FBX of the model would be exported, along with its animation cache, and then everything loaded into the rendering software. Doing this also means aligning the coordinate system between software as well as their unit scale. All of this allows for the retention of every frame as the simulation created it.
The other video is interesting. I may not have seen enough iClone videos yet, but it is the best example of lighting and textures I have seen to date.
Cheers,
Sterling
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By animatom - 11 Years Ago
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Oh, your description of workflow of teardrop is way above capabilities of iClone in this moment... (animated displacement map maybe would do the trick. maybe.) All in all, as you said in previous post, knowing the limit of software is essential. Iclone can do many many things and many many things it can't. But, as example, I recently made stage video for one big rock band for world tour, entirely in iClone, and it was done faster and more efficient then it would be possible in any heavy duty software on the market.
So, professional level IS possible. Just if we are creative enough to turn shortcomings into advantages. (and iClone is not short in that regard. :) )
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By sterlingy - 11 Years Ago
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animatom (9/1/2015)
I recently made stage video for one big rock band for world tour, entirely in iClone, and it was done faster and more efficient then it would be possible in any heavy duty software on the market.
Agreed. My project is something of a vanity project at the moment. It's just a silly idea, but it's not a one off video. It would be a series of them, and I'll need to pump one out a week. I don't want it to be a full-time job. Once all of the assets are ready, I would hope to be able to bang out animations very quickly. For this, I have faith in iClone.
I've been involved in the development of a lot of technology, much of it animation software, including 3DS MAX. I was working on it before anyone even knew it existed, and I produced the demo for it's initial release. What I do believe is that if more "pro" level work is done with iClone, there will be more incentive to make it a more robust platform. It already has so much going for it, but lacks some things that would make fanboys of other software cringe. For example, some "no brainer" things like horrendous TAB key UI navigation, to more complicated, but simple (with today's technology) volumetric lighting. I've seen the wish lists on the forum. Some requests are a bit complicated, and others... I just scratch my head as to why they weren't implemented from day one.
In Reallusion's defense, I'm sure they know their market very well, and their software seems to be catered to it. Keeping it simple probably works to their advantage. That makes me think of the "less is more" saying. However, as people become more proficient, they want more. They want to do more, and I don't think it works in Reallusion's favor to keep iClone as a stepping stone to other platforms, especially when it already outshines other software, costing 20 times as much, in some areas.
Speaking of cost, let's face it: iClone is extremely affordable for what it provides. Sure, most people will probably want some of the supporting software, but even if you're all in, it's still a bargain. Furthermore, if you have iClone 6 Pro, you're getting CC for free! Here's how that would have happened with Autodesk: You'd be maintaining your license annually for $1500. Someone would release Character Creator as a plugin for $500, which you'd gobble up. Then the next year, you'd continue to shell out another $1500, for bug fixes, and wouldn't you know it, new Character Creator features built in! Autodesk would have bought out the guy who you paid $500 to, and then made you essentially pay for it again when you renewed..
We / I have really gotten off-topic, but that's my two cents, though it's probably not worth much more than a penny.
~Sterling
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By animatom - 11 Years Ago
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I like how you think. And I agree completely.
I'm coming from different background - film director who doesnt like to work with live people (and zombies are always too busy :) ). Most important thing that teach you on film academy, or any kind of film school is that "idea is master and slave in same time". Meaning, movie is storycentric medium but it must be very aware of limitation of environment, budget, technicalities, context, etc... In this case environment is software and context is economy of software limitations. In other words, I am more happy that I must shape my story according to software limitations, and not other way around, to expand capabilities of software to match my story idea. It keeps me focus, coherent and efficient. Wouldn't know what to do with absolute freedom to make whatever I imagine. Funny as it sounds.
So, yes, absolutely, iClone desperatly needs improvements, but in same time Iam painfully aware that I could use improvements of myself as iClone user also. So, iam living in hope that somewhere on the line me and iClone will met in equally upgraded stage... :)
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By mark - 11 Years Ago
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HUGE amount of work for sure Sterling but a wonderful animation!!!! Thanks!
I certainly never did anything close to what you accomplished when I was working with higher-end software but the amount of time it took to realize a finished idea/project was just too much for me. That's what drove me to iClone for sure!!!:P:P:P
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By justaviking - 11 Years Ago
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@Sterlingy,
Yes, a nice video indeed.
Isn't it amazing how the computing power available to us has progressed? I'm being tempted by a GTX 970 Ti video card, which could probably render your video in realtime. But that aside, your video shows an interesting character overcoming obstacles ("conflict"), a good supporting musical score, effective camera direction, and good character animation.
Well done! And thanks for sharing.
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By sterlingy - 11 Years Ago
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animatom (9/1/2015)
I like how you think. And I agree completely.
I'm coming from different background - film director who doesnt like to work with live people
Animatom,
We seem to have a lot in common. I've had both a technical and storytelling bug since I was a kid. I won the school science fair by making an electronic organ in 7th grade, but at the same time was making (hilariously bad) home movies with an 8mm film camera. Because there seemed to be more security in technology, I started off in engineering school, but ended up switching to film school. Back in the 80's I got into CGI. There were almost no tools then, and what did exist was very archaic, compared to what we have today. Somehow, I've managed to dabble in both technology and film/TV.
Where I disagree with you is that if the technology exist to tell a story the way you want to tell it, then you should use it. Of course, $$$ can always be a problem. On the other hand, limitations can breed innovation, and those innovations can lead to results better than you had originally set to accomplish. The movie Jaws is a good example. The shark wasn't working, so Spielberg shot sequences differently, and they turned out to be some of the scariest of the film, without actually showing the shark!
As for "story," it's king. Take South Park, for instance, the animation is incredibly basic, but the creators have done a great job maintaining its style. However, no one would give it a second glance if it wasn't for its story. Shock and awe can only go so far, but whether you like it or not, the show is very clever. On the CGI side of things, the movie Hoodwinked, which has some of the worst CGI I've seen in a feature animated film, is one of my favorite animated movies, because of the story. Made for $15M, it grossed over $100M. That's a good payday.
-Sterling
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By sterlingy - 11 Years Ago
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justaviking (9/1/2015)
@Sterlingy,
Yes, a nice video indeed.
Isn't it amazing how the computing power available to us has progressed? I'm being tempted by a GTX 970 Ti video card, which could probably render your video in realtime. But that aside, your video shows an interesting character overcoming obstacles ("conflict"), a good supporting musical score, effective camera direction, and good character animation.
Well done! And thanks for sharing.
Thanks justaviking,
The technology to render my old animation in real time does exist. I was working with another renderer, Mach Studio Pro, which could have done it in a heartbeat. MSP had several similarities to iClone, but it was more powerful, as a renderer. iClone has much more to it as an animation package, but iClone wouldn't be able to render my project because of things like the animated mesh used for the water sim, which was made with RealFlow. Sure, there are workarounds, but they are cheats, and no one likes a cheater. ;)
Another issue would be the particle sims, which brings us back to the subject of 'missing features.' You can liken iClone to a game engine, which is why it is constrained to DirectX. with DirectX 11 and now DirectX 12, robust particle effects are moderately complicated to implement, but not a hugely daunting task. Reallusion might think of features like this as in the 'bells and whistles' category, but they'd milk it for everything they could to promote their software, and it would go a long way to providing more tools to their users.
Here is a link to a demo video from nVidia. Sure, I realize this is overkill, and the amount of work that went into it was probably off the charts, not to mention the technical know-how needed, but just know what is possible with a GPU in real time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rd4DE-RG_jw
For a BLOW YOUR MIND example of where we are headed (maybe not with iClone), this video by Square Enix almost gives me goose bumps. What we have to realize is that the rendering engines and assets are optimized for each other, so you can't expect this from iClone, which NEEDS to be a one size fits all product. Regardless, enjoy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ4HoPLwrI0
~Sterling
P.S. GTX 970 Ti? I didn't know they existed. Did you mean GTX 980 Ti?
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By mtakerkart - 11 Years Ago
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The shark wasn't working, so Spielberg shot sequences differently, and they turned out to be some of the scariest of the film, without actually showing the shark!
Not true ;) It's the "official" gossip. The true is the first screentest was a disaster , audience was laughing because of the shark wasn't credible and thought is was a B serie film. They ask to a "Veteran" to re-edit the movie. he cut all shark scenes because it is the base of suspens-horror movie: "Let the audience imagine"....
I think there is less movie because lot of us are waiting for the real features promised in January 2014!! I think we will be ok in septembre 2015. And now with the Neuron preview , why spend hours and hours now whereas we will have very convincing result in few weeks....
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By sterlingy - 11 Years Ago
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mtakerkart (9/1/2015)
I think there is less movie because lot of us are waiting for the real features promised in January 2014!! I think we will be ok in septembre 2015. And now with the Neuron preview , why spend hours and hours now whereas we will have very convincing result in few weeks....
Aside from a Neuron plugin coming sometime later this year, I doubt September, do we have any idea what to expect in the next release of iClone? I've seen people talking about a future release, but what I've read is just speculation or wishful thinking. Maybe I've missing something from the horses mouth (Reallusion).
-Sterling
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By mtakerkart - 11 Years Ago
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but what I've read is just speculation or wishful thinking
Neuron plugin is ready :
For now , the problem is Neuron itself. I'm a Neuron backer and hope receive it end of September....
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By sterlingy - 11 Years Ago
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mtakerkart (9/1/2015)
For now , the problem is Neuron itself. I'm a Neuron backer and hope receive it end of September....
I've been trying to follow the development of Neuron, but they aren't very forthcoming with steady info updates. When you say the problem is with them, is it just that they are delayed and back ordered, or are there technical problems with software and integration?
Do you know if you can have two Neuron rigs capturing at the same time, to control two Avatars simultaneously? I know it could be done by recording to memory card, then loading that data into the computer, but that doesn't give realtime visual feedback.
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By mtakerkart - 11 Years Ago
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Feedback
That's the real problem of Neuron. All backers users that received their kit on the Kickstarter haven't post anything efficient. Some have sell their kit because
they thought is was a "Game pad" and the worst for me is the very strange mutism on what's going on. The last batch was delayed du to "Chinese military march" (?????)
For Now I ask no more question on the kikcstarter forum. We don't know if we can capture 2 characters on the same session. And for the sd card it's not fonctional yet.
Neuron is like "doubleFace" ;-) the event face (siggraph , university etc...) is amazing and the Backers face is darkness....
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By sterlingy - 11 Years Ago
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mtakerkart (9/1/2015)
Feedback Neuron is like "doubleFace" ;-) the event face (siggraph , university etc...) is amazing and the Backers face is darkness....
Hmm... I've asked Kai twice if I should buy one now to get on the list, or if I should wait until the iClone plugin comes out. He hasn't answered me. I don't think he would have mentioned it during the last webinar if he/Reallusion weren't confident about its integration, plus there was great buzz around it at Siggraph, which I didn't attend, though I sent me peeps to check it out.
I guess I should wait and get on with my project without it, in the event that it becomes vaporware. I doubt it will be vaporware, however, as they are somehow involved with the mocap company that provides tools for GolfTech, and that is a HUGE company.
-Sterling
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By Rampa - 11 Years Ago
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Noitom have been around for a while. The "Neuron" is actually their "low-end" system, as well as their latest. Low-end being less exspensive and having the sensors wired to a central unit.
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By sterlingy - 11 Years Ago
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rampa (9/1/2015)
Noitom have been around for a while. The "Neuron" is actually their "low-end" system, as well as their latest. Low-end being less exspensive and having the sensors wired to a central unit.
I wonder why they used Kickstarter to fund it? Also, I've used the system at GolfTec, and it was tethered, maybe they've come out with a wireless system. Regardless, I thought Neuron could also transmit over WiFi or Bluetooth. Maybe I just dreamed that.
~Sterling
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By mtakerkart - 11 Years Ago
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Yes it can work with wifi.
You can see all the setup here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNrkkbkd_GV7b7cut_J8_pA
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By sterlingy - 11 Years Ago
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mtakerkart,
Looks pretty simple, but the setup raises a question that's been on my mind for a while. They have presets for Actor body height, and I'm 202cm. I hope that isn't going to be an issue.
-Sterling
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By Rampa - 11 Years Ago
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As far as connectivity options go for the Neuron, it can connect by Wi-Fi, USB tether cable, or use its on-board SD card.
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By urbanlamb - 11 Years Ago
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I am assuming we will know more very shortly about this system. I would like to get this set up for my use but I want to be sure its usable by one person and a few other things as I am a one man band and all the things I do is simply for personal fullfillment and enjoyment. I need more info though I want to see someone put this on and set it up solo lol. Every clip I find is two people the guy wearing the sensors and another guy with the pc etc so I am worried it requires two people to set up and I do this stuff at night in the wee hours during long winters when no one is awake or around :ermm:
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By mtakerkart - 11 Years Ago
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Every clip I find is two people the guy wearing the sensors and another guy with the pc etc
Exactly!! I never see a real CG scene with characters interacting with this kit!!! I promise when I get it I will make a real iclone 6 video and you'll never see my
real old small body !! ;-)
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By sterlingy - 11 Years Ago
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In the video link posted (4 posts above), they show how to calibrate the system, and they suggest using two people to set it up. Mostly to make sure the user is aligned properly. However, I have seen a video of one person doing it. It might just take a few extra tries for proper alignment, and the software tells you if you failed, so you won't spend a day capturing to learn you did it wrong.
-Sterling
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By urbanlamb - 11 Years Ago
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yes they say you "should" but with some grunting and groaning if its possible to get this working solo I would like to know. It looks like it can be used alone .. with some patience of course. Anyhow i am hoping we have some adventurous people around.. at the moment I have no time for this so didnt purchase during the kickstarter but want to eventually.
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By sterlingy - 11 Years Ago
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I'd get one yesterday if I could. Of course, that goes against my current MO, which is to not buy into tech before it is proven. I have a history of buying broken or not ready for prime time products, which either collect dust, or I end up being part of the development team.
-Sterling
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By Rampa - 11 Years Ago
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I think the max number of actors is five. Noitom's software comes in standard and pro versions that support two and five actors.
Spec sheet: https://neuronmocap.com/content/axis-neuron-software
If the iClone plugin supports multiple actors, that would be really helpful. Otherwise, we'll need to import through 3DX.
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By Lord Ashes - 11 Years Ago
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rampa (9/1/2015)
The G5 meshes consisted of 5 main body parts (upper, lower, head, hands, feet). The clothing, whether or a separate layer, was integrated with these 5 parts.
The G6 avatars are a single part for the entire body (Think DAZ), and the clothing is not part of it, also like DAZ.
The answer is correct but the references to DAZ are not correct. DAZ Studio characters are a single mesh (as was indicated) but in iClone the clothing is part of the same mesh...which is NOT the case with DAZ Studio.
While you can create clothing by modifying the character skin textures (to create what is referred to as "Second Skin" clothing) the majority of clothing in DAZ Studio is done as separate objects because one of the biggest advantages of DAZ Studio is that objects (such as clothing) can be applied to a character in such a way that when the character moves the corresponding object (i.e. clothing) moves with the character. More importantly the object (i.e. clothing) bends and stretches with the character.
This is, in my opinion, one of the deficiencies of iClone because it means that you need different bases to accomplish different looks. Hence why iClone has many G5 Cloths. These are different bases that one can apply textures and opacity maps to in order to create a desired look. In DAZ there are typically only two bases (a male and female) and clothing is applied as separate objects so that it can be almost any shape without needing a different base. If you want a trench coat as opposed to a short coat, you don't use a different base...you use a different clothing piece which automatically conforms to the base. This functionality also allows the same clothing to work with all of the DAZ character morphs. For example, clothing is made for the standard male or female base and then when the user applies a muscular morph or a fat morph or a skinny morph, the clothing automatically adjusts so there is not need to re-create the clothing that fits a muscular base, or fat base or skinny base.
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By urbanlamb - 11 Years Ago
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Lord Ashes (9/2/2015)
rampa (9/1/2015)
The G5 meshes consisted of 5 main body parts (upper, lower, head, hands, feet). The clothing, whether or a separate layer, was integrated with these 5 parts.
The G6 avatars are a single part for the entire body (Think DAZ), and the clothing is not part of it, also like DAZ.
The answer is correct but the references to DAZ are not correct. DAZ Studio characters are a single mesh (as was indicated) but in iClone the clothing is part of the same mesh...which is NOT the case with DAZ Studio. While you can create clothing by modifying the character skin textures (to create what is referred to as "Second Skin" clothing) the majority of clothing in DAZ Studio is done as separate objects because one of the biggest advantages of DAZ Studio is that objects (such as clothing) can be applied to a character in such a way that when the character moves the corresponding object (i.e. clothing) moves with the character. More importantly the object (i.e. clothing) bends and stretches with the character. This is, in my opinion, one of the deficiencies of iClone because it means that you need different bases to accomplish different looks. Hence why iClone has many G5 Cloths. These are different bases that one can apply textures and opacity maps to in order to create a desired look. In DAZ there are typically only two bases (a male and female) and clothing is applied as separate objects so that it can be almost any shape without needing a different base. If you want a trench coat as opposed to a short coat, you don't use a different base...you use a different clothing piece which automatically conforms to the base. This functionality also allows the same clothing to work with all of the DAZ character morphs. For example, clothing is made for the standard male or female base and then when the user applies a muscular morph or a fat morph or a skinny morph, the clothing automatically adjusts so there is not need to re-create the clothing that fits a muscular base, or fat base or skinny base.
To be honest iclone stuff is built for a real time engine daz I never quite get them at times. Iclones stuff is better optimized as it takes less resources so even though it might seem more handy to you in daz to have the multiple layers of mesh the reality is.. its hard on resources but a lot of daz stuff is meant for still shots and stuff that is not destined for a real time engine although even then the layers make no sense because well for lack of a better way to put it "its bad form". I get the impression with daz characters that they are not actually intended to be used that way and that infact you are supposed to put the clothes on them and export them and delete all the extra faces underneath and merge the clothing etc.
The clonecloth stuff is set up in that way to save on precious resources. each polygon you can get rid of is a huge saving.
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By sterlingy - 11 Years Ago
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For some reason, I think all of this will not be important once character creator is released. At least I hope so.
The only thing that will remain to discover is the implementation of custom clothing.
-Sterling
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By urbanlamb - 11 Years Ago
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sterlingy (9/2/2015)
For some reason, I think all of this will not be important once character creator is released. At least I hope so.
The only thing that will remain to discover is the implementation of custom clothing.
-Sterling
Yes the CC is probably going to be a far better solution then using the daz genesis line and for more then one reason. Iclone characters are made for a real time engine the new G6 is simply in keeping with the newer constraints so I think people will be able to make a lot of um insteresting things at least this is my hope that you can get some more interesting shapes out of it and not just the basic average human specimen.
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By sterlingy - 11 Years Ago
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urbanlamb (9/2/2015)
[quote]sterlingy (9/2/2015)
I think people will be able to make a lot of um insteresting things at least this is my hope that you can get some more interesting shapes out of it and not just the basic average human specimen.
I'm not so interested in the "um" part, but if we can make non-human characters, then it will be an amazing tool. I'm not holding my breath on that, however, as I've only seen human creations in the few videos that have circulated.
-Sterling
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By madicloner - 11 Years Ago
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g6 anything other than humanoid? I´m convinced, that that will not happen! It was impossible from g1 to g5 and it is impossible with g6, too.
Did you see the "new" g6 avatars with new names? They are 1:1 the old g6 avatars - only a bit morphed. They are the worst avatars ever. All other generations had striking differences. g6 not. So bury immediately any hopes of non-humanoid avatars in g6!
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By sterlingy - 11 Years Ago
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madicloner (9/2/2015)
g6 anything other than humanoid? I´m convinced, that that will not happen!
MadiCloner, don't be a buzz kill. ;)
It hadn't even occurred to me that it could create non-humans. The thought was only put into my brain pan when I read the earlier post. On the other hand, it should certainly be able to make humans with exaggerated proportions and features.
As for the avatars being horrendous: I've only seen a demo video, which I couldn't scrutinize, and it's beta until it's in my hands, so I try not to judge.
-Sterling
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By madicloner - 11 Years Ago
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Oh, that´s not killing a buzz. It´s only the sad truth. RL has stopped any development of iClone after v6. Even worse they "deinstalled" features like director, mirror, the great performance of iClone until v5.5, Daz char support and a lot other features. Instead we get a sluggish core with an ugly interface, bad made soft-cloth and "fake" additional characters. Development is stopped. Fully stopped. So hoping for any kind of development or even something special, technically great is just foolish. Me was only hoping for a again good core and better graphics. I had to accept, that this won´t come true. Development is stopped. Totally! You will only be able to additional buy "lost" old features like a bit "facemorphing" for g6 out of v5 days. That´s it.
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By sterlingy - 11 Years Ago
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Hmmm.... So, in your opinion, we'll never see a v7, but things like Character Creator and integration of Perception Neuron are only being developed because they are under the umbrella of v6?
You make it sound like they are shuttering the doors on everything to do with iClone except selling what they have. I doubt that is the case, but it could be. Autodesk does it all the time. If they don't sell enough of a product, they kill it.
I can't comment of how things progressed or got worse between v5 and v6 as I have only just started using it. Being a user and owner of infinitely more robust/expensive animation platforms, I still find iClone to do some things very well, and within the constraints of the software, it is highly capable for specific projects, and in some case better than other solutions.
~Sterling
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By urbanlamb - 11 Years Ago
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heh I have to say I dont see the same doom everyone sees and been using iclone for awhile I just stayed away from these forums for well years Things tend to change from time-to-time but its usually for the better. I look at what iclone started as and see where it is now and I can't see how development has stopped its just not what some people would like to see, but objectively one can't say its stopped its just not always in the direction many would like it to go first. Looking at the fact they are you know trying to make a living at this they look at the entire market not just one section of it.
I am easy going though and always have been but i have not been disappointed and for me iclone has only just become something that I can use exclusively whereas up to version 5 it was not so I dunno they must have done something to make me drop other things and move projects entirely to iclone LOL.
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By madicloner - 11 Years Ago
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@Sterling Right. I don´t see a chance for a v7. v6 is new, was expensive and is very badly "re-programmed" v5. Soon a v7 would too expensive! But they really need it. Performance is on every pc a disaster. Now Projects with only one Dazzie and terrain could "lock up" your pc. Never seen such a behavior under v5! v6 had no editing of characters. They were non-standard. v5 had not this problem. Every generation had fitting cloth. Always. CC has only additional morphing, bad copied from Daz. Textures are with max of 2k too small and I hope they offer soon a lot of clothes and morphs. At moment g6 is still only a nice toy, but not more. g6 has about 51k polys. Dazzies about 300k. Guess, what looks better! Yes, RL has shutted all doors to Daz and try to sell their "own" version of "Dazzies" - but with lower quality and no interesting content, at moment. Development is zero. No better graphics, no development of the soft cloth and bug-fighting of this , no bringing back of 2nd kind of facials (that not killed the voice if applied) and no really, really needed core-repairing for better performance. Instead we get only a buggy CC. The CC does not "morph" the physics proxies of the avatars, too. A bad joke. I doubt, that they really have tested, what they release. In short: iCloner are now locked to lowpoly movies with lowpoly avatars and - if they don´t want to have serious problems - lowpoly props. That means, that we will be only able to make low quality movies for ever. Perhaps RL will try to build pipelines to Unity & co. But I doubt, that games will take lowpoly content for ever. Especially Stingray already uses high quality content. RL could build Daz-iClone-piplines to Stingray, but not lowpoly-only. No clue what RL really wants to do - but this path does not really lead into the future.
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By sterlingy - 11 Years Ago
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I can understand why you'd be dismayed. So what do you use if iClone frustrates you so much?
-Sterling
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By madicloner - 11 Years Ago
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@Sterling Oh, I´m not frustrated. I just would like a product, that is developed again instead of only raising the price and made it worse. RL and me have the same goal: A good future for a good product. And perhaps RL finds a good way into the future instead of trying to go on cheap, strange ways of the past until the future is found. Partly it appears like a real trial and error. They wanted to support UNity - and g6 should not work for this. But g5 worked. Super soft cloth was a great idea - but it often works and works randomly not. And you got no clue, why. But this has nothing to do with frustration. Better performance and better graphics together with much better avatars and textures would RL lead to the big money, super secure future and happy customers. Instead they release one patchofpatchfixpatch after another and got a lot of moaning customers together with a doubtful future. But this has nothing to do with frustration. Be sure!
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