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By jgrant - 11 Years Ago
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Kai just finished a new webinar on Scene Creation (I like to attend every one I can) and he premiered the CC (which should debut August 31) and it is FANTASTIC!! Lots of adjustments (think Daz meets game engine avatar like 'The Sims') only much more robust. Daz could learn a thing or two about how well put together the IC6 CC is. Now, we only got a peak (and I forgot to grab a screenshot I was so happy), but it looks like the answer to my dreams for character creation, ease of use and versatility. Now - if they just add AUDIO SCRUB to the timeline, I will be an even happier guy.
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By hattori kun - 11 Years Ago
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That's great to hear.
And just to make it transparent for any user that might be looking into Character Creator, there's a free version and a paid pro version.
The pro version doesn't come with 3dx 6, Its a standalone plugin.
The free version will come with Iclone 6. Its still a standalone plugin with limited features.
I made the mistake of buying 3dx 6 thinking the CC pro version comes with 3dx 6. Its been clarified that its not included. Its a separate product. I hope they change this page that lists CC as an upcoming feature of 3dx 6.
http://www.reallusion.com/iClone/3DXchange.html
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By hattori kun - 11 Years Ago
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Smooth LipSync 2.0 - Phoneme Pairs this might be a separate product as well.
There's no announcement yet how this feature is marketted with the base Iclone product.
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By urbanlamb - 11 Years Ago
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I cant wait for either of these things the character creator seems like it will be very nice and the lip synch etc will make things a lot smoother. I think its all gonna be quite awesome :D
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By jgrant - 11 Years Ago
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Yeah, I agree. Nice to know about the smooth lip sync add. I didn't know about that. With the CC modules, any idea what the Pro version will cost? Same with the lip sync module? Both of those are must haves for the work I have planned. I'm beta testing now all of my workflows - and those two products make IC6 my new real time animation a reality. I will use a combo of baked motion and key frame plus voice actors to create a new long form project for 2016.
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By Rampa - 11 Years Ago
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I was wondering if the reason the enhanced visemes were mentioned on the 3DX page was because it is a way for DAZzies to get better lip-sync? I suspect the default iClone avatars will have it by default.
It looks like the entire CC texture system might be just three fancy Substances. I'm guessing its one for the body, one for the head, and one for the clothes. Or maybe one for each specific garment base, to support all the special maps that Substances can use for each one.
My speculation, you never know........until next week. ;)
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By JIX - 11 Years Ago
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Thanks for sharing this information, jgrant! Watched that part of the webinar right now on the RL-YouTube-Channel. Looks great! There seem to be really a lot of options. Looking forward to play with them. We are all going to be "Master of Puppets"! :D
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By AverageJoe - 11 Years Ago
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SO let me guess... The "free" version will most likely be severely limited and useless in the long run, thus forcing people to buy the Pro version. Why doesn't RL just rip out every system in iClone, make it a plugin, and then charge for it. Let's charge for every little addon. Personally, 3DXChange still [Removed] me off... The pro version of iClone should be able to import directly, but noooo... RL has to find something to make people pay extra for. Their whole business model is really starting to [Removed again] me off. Everything is is now extra...
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By rampart - 11 Years Ago
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wizaerd (8/27/2015)
SO let me guess... The "free" version will most likely be severely limited and useless in the long run, thus forcing people to buy the Pro version. Why doesn't RL just rip out every system in iClone, make it a plugin, and then charge for it. Let's charge for every little addon. Personally, 3DXChange still [Removed] me off... The pro version of iClone should be able to import directly, but noooo... RL has to find something to make people pay extra for. Their whole business model is really starting to [Removed again] me off. Everything is is now extra...
In the not too distant past Reallusion had artists creating some very excellent content items. Now, Reallusion only brokers the things made by other people.
As a result, RL has to make it more off the applications.
Daz3d still has artists producing content and they pump out content daily. Good stuff too!
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By Peter (RL) - 11 Years Ago
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wizaerd (8/27/2015)
Personally, 3DXChange still [Removed] me off... The pro version of iClone should be able to import directly, but noooo... RL has to find something to make people pay extra for. Their whole business model is really starting to [Removed again] me off. Everything is is now extra...
Please do not use profanity. There is no need for it. The negativity in your posts comes through without it. :Whistling:
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By Peter (RL) - 11 Years Ago
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wizaerd (8/27/2015)
Personally, 3DXChange still [Removed] me off... The pro version of iClone should be able to import directly, but noooo... RL has to find something to make people pay extra for. Their whole business model is really starting to [Removed again] me off. Everything is is now extra...
Not everyone needs the features of 3DXchange so incorporating it all into iClone 6 would just push the cost of iClone itself up. Look at 3DS Max or Maya. These heavyweight 3D modellers include every feature and import and export option you can think of but the price tag is several thousand dollars. We don't want to push iClone out of the price range of hobbyists or amateur movie makers by bloating it out with features not everyone needs.
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By VirtualMedia - 11 Years Ago
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wizaerd (8/27/2015)
SO let me guess... The "free" version will most likely be severely limited and useless in the long run, thus forcing people to buy the Pro version. Why doesn't RL just rip out every system in iClone, make it a plugin, and then charge for it. Let's charge for every little addon. Personally, 3DXChange still [Removed] me off... The pro version of iClone should be able to import directly, but noooo... RL has to find something to make people pay extra for. Their whole business model is really starting to [Removed again] me off. Everything is is now extra...
Although I somewhat agree with what you're saying, I realize the only way Reallusion or any other company can invest more time and money into their products is to generate revenue. Personally I prefer what I believe the character creator solution will provide. I'd rather pay little upfront for a program / plugin that enables me to create a multitude of unique characters rather than constantly purchasing more prefab ones. And face it the same couple characters in a 1000's of different movies get's boring quickly.
If you prefer to use the stock characters there's no requirement to purchase the pro version of Character Creator.
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By AverageJoe - 11 Years Ago
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Peter (RL) (8/27/2015)
wizaerd (8/27/2015)
Personally, 3DXChange still [Removed] me off... The pro version of iClone should be able to import directly, but noooo... RL has to find something to make people pay extra for. Their whole business model is really starting to [Removed again] me off. Everything is is now extra...Not everyone needs the features of 3DXchange so incorporating it all into iClone 6 would just push the cost of iClone itself up. Look at 3DS Max or Maya. These heavyweight 3D modellers include every feature and import and export option you can think of but the price tag is several thousand dollars. We don't want to push iClone out of the price range of hobbyists or amateur movie makers by bloating it out with features not everyone needs.
Since IC doesn't really include modeling functionality beyond lumping basic shapes together, almost everyone is going to want to import models, whether they be characters or static props. Just a basic import of a static prop is impossible unless you purchase another separate program (3DXChange). Unless you buy this, you are stuck with what comes as stock in IC or buy more content packs. By not allowing to import other models without buying the separate app means every IC movie you make will basically look poor and the same as every other IC movie. No, I do not believe 3DXChange needs to be a sperate app, at least not for asic object importing.
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By urbanlamb - 11 Years Ago
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wizaerd (8/27/2015)
Peter (RL) (8/27/2015)
wizaerd (8/27/2015)
Personally, 3DXChange still [Removed] me off... The pro version of iClone should be able to import directly, but noooo... RL has to find something to make people pay extra for. Their whole business model is really starting to [Removed again] me off. Everything is is now extra...Not everyone needs the features of 3DXchange so incorporating it all into iClone 6 would just push the cost of iClone itself up. Look at 3DS Max or Maya. These heavyweight 3D modellers include every feature and import and export option you can think of but the price tag is several thousand dollars. We don't want to push iClone out of the price range of hobbyists or amateur movie makers by bloating it out with features not everyone needs. Since IC doesn't really include modeling functionality beyond lumping basic shapes together, almost everyone is going to want to import models, whether they be characters or static props. Just a basic import of a static prop is impossible unless you purchase another separate program (3DXChange). Unless you buy this, you are stuck with what comes as stock in IC or buy more content packs. By not allowing to import other models without buying the separate app means every IC movie you make will basically look poor and the same as every other IC movie. No, I do not believe 3DXChange needs to be a sperate app, at least not for asic object importing.
I was trying to explain this to someone else but you need to look at this from a pricepoint point of view. If you pile it all into iclone your looking at a much higher price especially with all the capability of the exchange even just the pro version there is a lot. The pipeline 3dexchange which I love to pieces is an insanely awesome workhorse. So if you want to combine all that functionality into iclone and help them make a profit on all the R & D and manhours they put into that are you willing to pay between 500-1k for iclone? because that is the pricepoint we are looking at. This will in fact probably push iclone out of the market its trying to compete in. What reallussion has done is try to create a system that is affordable. Not only that even if you are a hobbyist and want to do more complicated stuff and do all your own modelling etc etc its broken up so you are not looking at spending a lot of money all at once so you can buy one part of it and update that and then save up to update the next one. To me this is a sensible solution. I use iclone for lots of silly things but I possess the skillset to make custom everything i also like to work with other realtime engines the reallusion package and they way they have split stuff up well I thank them for that.
They have made it possible for all types of creators to use their software including the guy who likes to make a small skit on the weekend for fun all the way to the guy who wants to do custom everything and spent months or years to create a single masterpiece. They have made the software affordable to all. I have had this discussion with many who dont seem to realize that they are trying to keep their software at a pricepoint that everyone can afford considering the massive R&D work they put into their stuff. which.. is a lot..
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By AverageJoe - 11 Years Ago
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urbanlamb (8/27/2015)
wizaerd (8/27/2015)
Peter (RL) (8/27/2015)
wizaerd (8/27/2015)
Personally, 3DXChange still [Removed] me off... The pro version of iClone should be able to import directly, but noooo... RL has to find something to make people pay extra for. Their whole business model is really starting to [Removed again] me off. Everything is is now extra...Not everyone needs the features of 3DXchange so incorporating it all into iClone 6 would just push the cost of iClone itself up. Look at 3DS Max or Maya. These heavyweight 3D modellers include every feature and import and export option you can think of but the price tag is several thousand dollars. We don't want to push iClone out of the price range of hobbyists or amateur movie makers by bloating it out with features not everyone needs. Since IC doesn't really include modeling functionality beyond lumping basic shapes together, almost everyone is going to want to import models, whether they be characters or static props. Just a basic import of a static prop is impossible unless you purchase another separate program (3DXChange). Unless you buy this, you are stuck with what comes as stock in IC or buy more content packs. By not allowing to import other models without buying the separate app means every IC movie you make will basically look poor and the same as every other IC movie. No, I do not believe 3DXChange needs to be a sperate app, at least not for asic object importing. I was trying to explain this to someone else but you need to look at this from a pricepoint point of view. If you pile it all into iclone your looking at a much higher price especially with all the capability of the exchange even just the pro version there is a lot. The pipeline 3dexchange which I love to pieces is an insanely awesome workhorse. So if you want to combine all that functionality into iclone and help them make a profit on all the R & D and manhours they put into that are you willing to pay between 500-1k for iclone? because that is the pricepoint we are looking at. This will in fact probably push iclone out of the market its trying to compete in. What reallussion has done is try to create a system that is affordable. Not only that even if you are a hobbyist and want to do more complicated stuff and do all your own modelling etc etc its broken up so you are not looking at spending a lot of money all at once so you can buy one part of it and update that and then save up to update the next one. To me this is a sensible solution. I use iclone for lots of silly things but I possess the skillset to make custom everything i also like to work with other realtime engines the reallusion package and they way they have split stuff up well I thank them for that. They have made it possible for all types of creators to use their software including the guy who likes to make a small skit on the weekend for fun all the way to the guy who wants to do custom everything and spent months or years to create a single masterpiece. They have made the software affordable to all. I have had this discussion with many who dont seem to realize that they are trying to keep their software at a pricepoint that everyone can afford considering the massive R&D work they put into their stuff. which.. is a lot..
I still have to disagree. Everybody could use with object import, again even if it's limited to static meshes. People don't get it because iClone already has a heft enough price tag, then tack on 3DX as well, it's now double the price point just to import a static mesh. For a program that relies upon imports, because the stock offerings are so minimal, there isn;t anybody walking that couldn't use object import, but they don;t because they don't want to pay for 3DX just to do so.
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By justaviking - 11 Years Ago
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Extra cost for extra features? Yup. It's not that unusual.
Allow me to be a Reallusion "fanboy" for a moment...
I still remember when iClone 5.5 was released. It had so many new features, many people expressed surprise and delight that it was a free 5.x upgrade, rather than being a next major release you had to buy.
Similarly, Reallusion could now be charging us for the Character Creator, even the base version. They could still have two versions, moderate cost for the basic version, and a higher price for the pipeline version. But we are getting the basic CC version for free.
Don't worry, I do take my turn grumbling about the cost of things. (And ask me about mirrors and PBR shading.) But I ask you, do we really need to complain that there is a fuller-featured version available for a price, or should we be happy there is what appears to be a very functional version available to us for free?
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By JIX - 11 Years Ago
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Similarly, Reallusion could now be charging us for the Character Creator, even the base version.
No way! From my point of view this belongs to the basic tool set. You should be able to create a range of humans including outfit (based on the current character generation) within iClone without any extra cost. That´s one of the core features!
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By jgrant - 11 Years Ago
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Reallusion is being cost conscious IMHO by offering us a free version ( I expected to pay) and a PRO version for $? I'm just hoping PRO will be $49. A couple hundred would be gouging. If you look at Daz and Poser, they too provide enough to be useful and wet your appetite - so you will buy more. It's a business that depends on user support - and that means paying for assets and materials. As I am on a budget, I weigh every purchase carefully and only buy what I need. CC free will help me determine if I buy CC PRO.
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By madicloner - 11 Years Ago
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I have seen, that 3dx ports content to unity, Unreal4 and Stingray. Therefore I want to throw in, that If you port animated chars to CryEngine, me and a lot of other people would pay a lot! Especially when Unity has only iClone graphics, Unreal is crushed by PhysiX and lack of graphics development and Stingray has no fluids and the graphics are still worse than CryEngine3. If the next iClone has the CryEngine as engine, me and a lot of people would pay even more. Reflect that! All you would have to do would be a porting-automatic and the pimping of "Track View". Everything else is already there. Fluids, softcloth, ragdolls, and, and, and, and the best realtime rendering that is effordable! Think this kind of programming and investing is less expensive than the monkey around with the actual patchedofpatchfixofpatched iClone with many years old rendering you don´t want to touch. Or ? What do you say to this suggestion ?
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By justaviking - 11 Years Ago
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JJJAM (8/27/2015)
...Reallusion could now be charging us for the Character Creator, even the base version. No way! From my point of view this belongs to the basic tool set.
Naturally I was not meaning to encourage it, or saying they ought to. I was simply pointing out they could.
I'm glad they aren't, and I agree it does make sense to be part of the core package.
I can hardly wait to try it in a few days. It will be so fun when people start posting pictures of their new characters.
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By jgrant - 11 Years Ago
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I'm looking forward to the CC and creating the wonderful characters that are already fighting for space in my head. Film noir bad guys, an assassin and his wayward daughter he is teaching the tricks of the trade, overheard conversations and comments from random street encounters - there is a great opportunity to develop an ecosystem of animation that is fluid and graphically unique. A complex character world will add a lot of weight to this program - and it is one I am eager to begin work in.
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By hattori kun - 11 Years Ago
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Peter (RL) (8/27/2015)
wizaerd (8/27/2015)
Personally, 3DXChange still [Removed] me off... The pro version of iClone should be able to import directly, but noooo... RL has to find something to make people pay extra for. Their whole business model is really starting to [Removed again] me off. Everything is is now extra...Not everyone needs the features of 3DXchange so incorporating it all into iClone 6 would just push the cost of iClone itself up. Look at 3DS Max or Maya. These heavyweight 3D modellers include every feature and import and export option you can think of but the price tag is several thousand dollars. We don't want to push iClone out of the price range of hobbyists or amateur movie makers by bloating it out with features not everyone needs.
I have no more question regarding CC pipeline being a separate purchase.
My only request is to put down the false advert here
http://www.reallusion.com/iClone/3DXchange.html
Because it really makes it look like 3dx 6 has this feature. Some people bought 3dx 6 for CC including me.
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By hattori kun - 11 Years Ago
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Is smooth Lipsync a separate purchase btw?
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By JIX - 11 Years Ago
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Sooo true! This advert really was causing confusion. In a former webinar I was asking Kai, if CC will be part of 3DX due to that site. The answer was, it will be a plug-in for iClone. Now it´s going to be a seperate tool. What the heck was going on?!
Sorry RL, what we really need is a reliable information policy!
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By Bellatrix - 11 Years Ago
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jgrant (8/27/2015)
Lots of adjustments (think Daz meets game engine avatar like 'The Sims') only much more robust.
Sounds good to my ears. RL obviously hear their users, even if they act coy and silence. ;)
Well, keep the pleasant surprise coming...
Daz could learn a thing or two about how well put together the IC6 CC is.
Daz parameters: morph sliders are much more than just shape tweakers - each slider has a whole universe of complex tweak-able variables underneath. Their panes are highly customizable too. But we'll see.
Have to say the Sims-style dynamic mouse trigger screen space morphing is just cool. Looking forward to it.
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By Peter (RL) - 11 Years Ago
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hattori kun (8/28/2015)
[quote][b] I have no more question regarding CC pipeline being a separate purchase. My only request is to put down the false advert here http://www.reallusion.com/iClone/3DXchange.htmlBecause it really makes it look like 3dx 6 has this feature. Some people bought 3dx 6 for CC including me.
Hi Hattori,
I will discuss this with the rest of the team and let them know your feelings on this. I can see how the Character Creator being listed among the new features coming to 3DXchange 6 does cause confusion. I think the fact that the three products (iClone 6 Pro, 3DXchange 6 and the Character Creator) are so closely linked together that the new CC was considered a new feature for all products. It also can be considered a new feature for 3DXchange 6 in so much as you will need 3DXchange 6 Pipeline to be able to export your CC creations.
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By Peter (RL) - 11 Years Ago
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hattori kun (8/28/2015)
Is smooth Lipsync a separate purchase btw?
No it isn't. :)
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By jgrant - 11 Years Ago
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Not wanting to add fuel to this fire - but the advertisement is misleading. I'm a happy 3DX user and respect the amount of work going into these tools and the money/time involved - but the CC and the Lip Sync options should clearly have been listed as ADD-ONS, UPGRADES or forthcoming FEATURES outside of 3DX. Here's hoping that the continued evolution of ALL these products continues in a very transparent and open manner. I'm impressed with what you are providing for the $$$$ and the versatility of the toolsets (plus the tutorials) - but clarity for your base consumers is critical to maintain brand loyalty IMHO.
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By JIX - 11 Years Ago
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Sims-style dynamic mouse trigger screen space morphing
What a charming paraphrase! Thumbs up! :)
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By Armstrong - Founder Member since 2005 - 11 Years Ago
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wizaerd (8/27/2015)
SO let me guess... The "free" version will most likely be severely limited and useless in the long run, thus forcing people to buy the Pro version. Why doesn't RL just rip out every system in iClone, make it a plugin, and then charge for it. Let's charge for every little addon. Personally, 3DXChange still [Removed] me off... The pro version of iClone should be able to import directly, but noooo... RL has to find something to make people pay extra for. Their whole business model is really starting to [Removed again] me off. Everything is is now extra...
Reallusion Disappoint yet another Founder Member Self Destructively.
Disappointing. Really disappointing.
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By LPmoviestvs - 11 Years Ago
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it out tomorrow so let use all wait to see how it is then we can tell them how we think best way I think
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By genao87 - 11 Years Ago
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So both CC and Lip Synch would be out tomorrow? Available for purchase? Also if I remember right, lip sync would be part of Iclone 6? Not an add on or anything, when you buy Iclone 6, it comes with it?
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By LPmoviestvs - 11 Years Ago
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I here the lip sync is free and the cc basic is free add on if you got pro my be wrong but I think that what they said
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By VirtualMedia - 11 Years Ago
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That would be a nice bonus, I didn't realize the Lipsync editor upgrade was getting dropped tomorrow as well. Very Cool!
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