Motion Capture Technology by Perception Neuron Shipping Now (Kickstarter)

Motion Capture Technology by Perception Neuron Shipping Now (Kickstarter)

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By InfoCentral - 10 Years Ago

Shipping has started!
The shipping process started in earnest and some lucky few will start —or will have already begun—to receive their tracking numbers. And depending on where you are, it will take between 7-14 days to get to your door.

More info and ability to pre-order on Kickstarter

By mtakerkart - 10 Years Ago

@InfoCentral

They said in the update info the 4th May:
"We are ramping production, but it will take us about 5-7 weeks to fulfill all the Kickstarter orders. We will be shipping on a weekly basis all the stocks produced that week. Don't worry, all KS will be honored first.
And depending on where you are, it will take between 7-14 days to get to your door."

Means for the unlucky 9 weeks to wait, means begining of July.......

By Bigus - 10 Years Ago

And it looks like RL dropping the plan to support this...

By planetstardragon - 10 Years Ago

it does seem like the P N guys also changed gears with their prices and packages from when it was first announced also.

By MnerosNaRa - 10 Years Ago

Bigus (5/11/2015)

And it looks like RL dropping the plan to support this...

What makes you say that? is there a source? or a posting i missed?

By planetstardragon - 10 Years Ago

I'm guessing because all the info and marketing is no longer available on the RL website. That does give the impression that it's been put aside.

By InfoCentral - 10 Years Ago

planetstardragon (5/11/2015)

it does seem like the P N guys also changed gears with their prices and packages from when it was first announced also.

The release price is always going to be higher than the development support price. If you would have purchased it on Kickstarter you would have only paid $550 for it.

By Bigus - 10 Years Ago

I can agree with and understand the RL POV.
But I'm going to get a pair of shoes with or without the IC support.

By mtakerkart - 10 Years Ago

The release price is always going to be higher than the development support price. If you would have purchased it on Kickstarter you would have only paid $550 for it.

Yes. But majority of kickstarter project major 30% of the backers prices. Neuron is 300% up!!! May be you didn't remember but last year Neuron made their marketing for Gaming player oriented and the majority of the backers are for playing game. After having half million dollars and 2 new people in their team they decide to change the sytem and the manufacturer increasing the price drastically.
What is their market today? Gamers? too expensive of course and tell me wich major game compagny will develop game with this tech that no gamer can't buy? No one at all.
Is there now for mocap market ? Big studio will never buy this tech from a "nowhere compagny". Indy developper? so few regarding their price.
Reallusion give up and the most probable futur for Neuron mocap is to die before born.....

By Bigus - 10 Years Ago

Well said.
Madness!

By MnerosNaRa - 10 Years Ago

mtakerkart (5/12/2015)

The release price is always going to be higher than the development support price. If you would have purchased it on Kickstarter you would have only paid $550 for it.

Right now I have limited space to mo-cap with the Kinect via Iclone - plug in or Ipi soft. I'm limited to where I can record, and on top of that there is a lot of clean up work afterwards.
Looking in to other systems, using mo-cap studios, or buying that pro equipment myself it's in the 30 - 40K (studio in my area 22k a session).

then comes along PN, No camera's, no space requirements, little to no calibration. just put the suit on and GO!. + unlike iPi it's realtime.
and with a second suit I can interact easily with another actor, no fooling around and messing with stuff to get the animation to look good,
to me that is worth the 1500 they are asking. it will be worth the saving up for it x2 because I will be getting 2 suits. Was going to wait a bit longer to order PN hoping that if i get it through Iclone they'd have a
discount promo deal. Peter if you are reading this post can you please confirm RL plans for the Perception Neuron please.

By InfoCentral - 10 Years Ago

mtakerkart (5/12/2015)

Look at iPi Soft, they now want $1200/year for their Kinect and Sony eye camera crap. This is way better tech. Look at competing products and you will realize this is a steal. Yes, you should of bought when it was a Kickstarter project. Yes, its up 300% and its still cheap but its only during current pre-order pricing that you can pick it up even at this price. I see you haven't been out shopping for electro-magnetic mocap systems.

By animagic - 10 Years Ago

It will still be a wait and see if they can fulfill their Kick Starter orders and then if they can sustain themselves and know at what market they are aiming.

Hardware is much more capital intensive than software, so the question is also if the have enough financial backing to deal with issues. Maybe everything is perfect, but the again, maybe not.

By urbanlamb - 10 Years Ago

I am still watching this project with great hope. I do not like the kinect systems and ipisoft pricing is now outrageous considering its not the best system in the world to use. So for me its some sort of sensor system or nothing. When I think of these systems with the cameras I feel like I am lighting a match to my money because the cleanup probably takes longer then doing the animation from scratch using keyframing in something like blender or maya and then exporting to iclone.

So I want a sensor system I just want to be sure they can fullfill the needs of their kickstarter orders first before I spend money on these guys.

By animagic - 10 Years Ago

I hope they succeed because I am also interested in the approach. I don't have the room for a Kinect solution. I missed the Kickstarter, unfortunately.

By prabhatM - 10 Years Ago

animagic (5/14/2015)

I hope they succeed because I am also interested in the approach. I don't have the room for a Kinect solution. I missed the Kickstarter, unfortunately.

Look at this kinect based option :

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/5wVT_k7ggyo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

By brothertcoleman - 10 Years Ago

Glad to see Reallusion will have another option with support for the Kinect 2 (Xbox One Version).

By Sifr - 10 Years Ago

Am I the only one here that "didn't" miss the PN KS?:D:crazy::satisfied::pinch::Whistling::w00t::w00t::w00t:

By Johnnie C - 10 Years Ago

5/21/2015 1:05:00 AM
Reallusion will identify and Noitom Perception cooperation will you ??
Because your English website to cooperation and Noitom Perception content has been removed. But the Chinese site is still so want to make sure, because this is really a greatthing ah !!!

5/21/2015 3:37:33 AM
Johnnie Hello:
Thank you contact Reallusion.
Currently we certainly will not cooperate with Noitom Perception.
Description of this part of the Chinese site, we have informed the development teamavailable.
For further questions, please contact us.
Thank you.
Reallusion Support Group
Yours truly

By mtakerkart - 10 Years Ago

Thank you very much Johnnie C. I can confirm the lack of professionalism of this team. Backers begin to receive their stuff but there's only 1 video how to open
the box !!!!......... Only one update wich tell they have fun visiting University.....................................
Anyway I'm waiting for my 11 Neurons and I'll share to Iclone users if it's useful for our pipeline.

By Johnnie C - 10 Years Ago

HI!mtakerkart

Maybe you can download and try some softwares from https://neuronmocap.com/quickstart

Johnnie

By mtakerkart - 10 Years Ago

Thank Johnnie. I've yet read the quickstart but with no neurons it's useless ;-) The problem is that in the quickstart manual there's no mention if we can rig a basic body with 11 neurons.
I asked them but no answer..... I've made this test in Iclone with a fbx file from Neuron looooong time ago in the happy days of this kickstarter project ;-)
The mocap data was record with the full body neuron witch cost today 1500$

https://youtu.be/qKzEpb_SMSw

By Ibis Fernandez - 10 Years Ago

Can't simeone with 11 android phones attached to their body recreate this? It's basically the same accelerometers right? ...Lol

By prabhatM - 10 Years Ago

Ibis Fernandez (5/26/2015)

Can't simeone with 11 android phones attached to their body recreate this? It's basically the same accelerometers right? ...Lol

It's worth exploring.

By planetstardragon - 10 Years Ago

now that you mention that approach, the iphone would probably make a great sensor - the whole concept of mixing that tech is interesting - all be it probably to expensive ...but think of the youtube videos with people slapping smart phones all over them for mocap sessions!! That alone would be precious!! :w00t:

Maybe someone should come out with a hybrid solution, something that combines the physical sensors with kinect / sony cam type sensors. The accuracy level it would generate would be rather high! It would probably be more affordable too because you wouldn't need as many sensors / cameras for accuracy since they would cross check each other. ^.^

don't be a kitten if you make this, I know this forum has some super talented techies that can do this, cut me in on that idea!!

By prabhatM - 10 Years Ago

You can have 11 triple axis accelerometers for under $50. The base unit to collect data for less than $200.

You don't need android phones. You can build your own IMU ( Inertia mesurement unit ).

By planetstardragon - 10 Years Ago

prabbhat, will you just invent one already! sheesh!

By prabhatM - 10 Years Ago

No promises. My hands are already full. But doable.
We may need to deal with the point clouds...but .there are possibilities.

By planetstardragon - 10 Years Ago

well I'm here to help when you need me! consider the hybrid idea though, I've seen some really good finger and facial mocap done with just kinect, but the softwares somehow just vanished - I can only imagine the level of accuracy, strapped hardware with infrared tracking would bring. I'm surprised no one is doing it yet actually. It's so obvious! - I can see it now ...."Dragon Mocap!" it's a winner!! lol :w00t:

By prabhatM - 10 Years Ago

Think why did they hike the price !

Initially, the idea looks good and you get drawn to it because you want to solve a problem.

But at the end of the day, you start doing the business analysis and you realize you don't make enough money and the organisation may not survive for long with that kind of revenue.

Once the technology euphoria is over, the reality of finance hangs heavy on your head.

Then you start thinking your time is worth more elsewhere.

We perhaps need an young braveheart to do these kind of projects ! Someday, I may just do a proof of concept prototype. Not sure though.

By planetstardragon - 10 Years Ago

ya, but I'm ghetto, I like to focus on using whats readily available, the difference is they are creating hardware, I'm thinking of how to use existing hardware to adapt to software that is able to interpolate the information - less capital start up, less to recoup.

What if you could write an app that would suddenly make old iphones and kinect 1.0 golden - fergetaboutit!

By mtakerkart - 10 Years Ago

I asked to neuron if we can make a basic body mocap with the 11 neurons pack and it confirms it:

Based on Full body Working Mode you can do the following:
Head(1)
Upper Arms and Lower Arms (4)
Chest (1)
Waist(1)
Upper Legs and Lower legs (4)
Total of 11 Neurons

Neurons on the feet is not necessary.

You can find the WORKING MODE'S diagram on the Axis Neuron startup welcome screen

Good news to not ruine small budget....

By toonarama - 10 Years Ago

That is good news but there is no such package being sold at the moment even though backers like yourself were able to do so. Hopefully they will rectify this sometime

By prabhatM - 10 Years Ago

mtakerkart (5/27/2015)

I asked to neuron if we can make a basic body mocap with the 11 neurons pack and it confirms it:

Based on Full body Working Mode you can do the following:
Head(1)
Upper Arms and Lower Arms (4)
Chest (1)
Waist(1)
Upper Legs and Lower legs (4)
Total of 11 Neurons

Neurons on the feet is not necessary.

You can find the WORKING MODE'S diagram on the Axis Neuron startup welcome screen

Good news to not ruine small budget....

These neutons need to be tied exactly at thd same place everytime ?
What happens if one strap becomes loose and the neuron slides away a few inches? Any distance compensation?

By mtakerkart - 10 Years Ago

@prabahtM

We don't know anything du to the mutism of the creator. A very few receive their package but no feedback at all......
But be shure when I received mine , I'll share you every things you want , in my ability field ;-)

By InfoCentral - 10 Years Ago

The good news for those who backed up the Perception Neuron Kickstarter are getting a cutting edge mocap solution cheap and with added extra goodies to boot. The poor backers of the PrioVR Kickstarter have already had their shipping delayed a year now and this is what they are getting now...

A Letter from Paul W. Yost

By Ibis Fernandez - 10 Years Ago

So I'm still keeping my eye out on this project but after logging on to the site this weeken to check on the status i saw the message that shipping is once again delayed till September. I really want this technology like...now so i decided to start looking into how complicated it would be just to make my own. Has anyone attempted to do this before or has any working electronics/programing skills that could contribute maybe towards an open source alternative?

I had some time to tinker around a bit with an Arduino Uno (less than $10) and a single LSM303 accelerometer ($18). I got it working and i can read the data. I next want to play around see if i can capture that data and translate to a single node 3d object. If i can get that working I want to start adding more accelerometers and see what can be done. BTW I'm just a hack, i know very little what I'm doing, just know this is something i want. Anyone with more experience in electronics and programing, maybe can lend a hand?

I also ordered a ton of these $3 MPU6050 accelerometers/gyroscopes, I think these might work for experimentation purposes. I have no idea what it'll need but at $3 per accelerometer and the $5 for the arduino, it seems like an entire 18 node suit can be constructed for about $54. Seems like the biggest challenge would be creating the software.

By Ibis Fernandez - 10 Years Ago

BTW, check this video at 3:21

By mtakerkart - 10 Years Ago

OMG!!! exactly what we need!!!

Me too I am very discouraged with the Neuron mocap. Moreover a guy put this vidéo (at 5:33) showing the Neuron creator working on another project ! Pathetic...

By jlittle - 10 Years Ago

The FreeIMU looks like the best bet since the hardware has been designed and there are libraries available.
I looked at the material list and in quantities of 100 the cost of material only (not assembly) is around $20 without the Baro sensor.
The Baro sensor seems to be a non-stocked item and is hard to find. Not sure if you really need it anyway. I did see one place list it for $20 single qty.
An assembled board from Europe is ~$51 USD each. To reach that price point you would have to make a larger qty to reduce the material cost.
For 18 sensors @$51 would be $918 plus a central control that can handle the data thru put and straps and cabling.
Then you have to interface it to a computer with some software (i.e. emulate mocap drivers or something).
A bit of work required.

Jeff

By Ibis Fernandez - 10 Years Ago

LOL i wasnt thinking of price point as my objective is not to make them to sell but just to make one for myself hahaha

I was also looking at the Spark Core which are basically miniaturized Arduinos with wifi capability. These nodes provably dont really have to talk to each other or process by a central local hub, instead, maybe they can individually send their data separately without depending on being all connected and managed by a central hub. Might avoid a lot of the issues that I'm finding were aparently you cant have more than a couple accelerometers per Ic2. I was hoping a single arduino could handle all the sensors but that might not be the case.

right foot: X: -3.37 Y: 1.26 Z: 8.08 m/s^2
right shin: X: -2.20 Y: 1.80 Z: 9.30 m/s^
right thigh: X: -3.30 Y: 1.26 Z: 7.96 m/s^2

anyhee, maybe if done something like this, the server can just do all the work based on the incoming data from the wireless nodes.

I found this vid...

By jlittle - 10 Years Ago

Ibis Fernandez (6/29/2015)

LOL i wasnt thinking of price point as my objective is not to make them to sell but just to make one for myself hahaha

lol, that's just the engineer in me talking.
The per unit price is around $26 without assembly and without the Baro Sensor, in quantities of 10.

I was hoping a single arduino could handle all the sensors but that might not be the case.

I'm sure it would not handle all that data traffic plus whatever calculations are needed.
The typical Arduino I2C runs at 100kbit/s but needs to be configured to run at 400kbits/sec which is required for the MPU6050.
Each axis is 16 bits (2 bytes) so for 3 axis of gyro, accel, and compass there are 144bits (18 bytes) to read.
There is also an overhead of 22 bit at the beginning of each data cycle plus 2 bits per byte + 1 stop bit for a total of 203 bits per data read.
At 400kbit/s it takes about 508us per data cycle. That means you can read the data at a rate of about 1970 times a second.
If you were running all 18 sensors at once the max sample rate would be 109 times (or think of it as frames) per sec per sensor (~9ms).
Not sure what a good sample rate is but it seems like the sampling might be fast enough.
The problem you can get into is that the length of the wires can cause problems on the I2C lines. You also don't normally configure the wiring in a star configuration (i.e. left and right side) but a linear one. Maybe use two processors, one for the left and one for the right. Using two processor would double your sample rate to 218 frames/s.

Food for thought.

Jeff

By Grimhilda - 10 Years Ago

I just have to admire the technical abilities I'm witnessing here!

I often wondered why no-one forged ahead with a simple desk-top mannequin which could be posed. Each new pose would be captured as a key-frame. With a 3d Printer, the limbs could be made with ball-joint attachments to each other.

I know that such a thing was made in Japan but years have passed since it started to ship there. Also the reverse seems to have been done: a figure on the screen causes a desk-top robot figure to move. That must be more complex.

By thebiz.movies - 10 Years Ago

Put up today...

By Ibis Fernandez - 10 Years Ago

That is so cool. I wish I had that technology in may hands right now.

By JC Weatherby - 10 Years Ago

Wow, I'm totally late to this party. Very exciting. Can't wait. Fingers crossed.

By prabhatM - 10 Years Ago

Looks amazing.

By alemar - 10 Years Ago

WOW Nice!

By GOETZIWOOD STUDIOS - 10 Years Ago

At last! Exactly what we need for production work.
Now lets see the new lipsync system.
Are we not Q3 already ? : )

By mtakerkart - 10 Years Ago

Maybe I break the party but I'm a backer of Neuron mocap it really not bod well and don't expect to have this tech before next year. They have problem to produce their kit and regarding their last kickstarter update , we , backers, will not have our kit before september if all is ok......

By Ibis Fernandez - 10 Years Ago

Yeah, that's why i decided to just start building my own. I know I can place a preorder but the fact is that there's a lot i can do with that money in the mean time so i just don't want to invest until I know I'm gonna be able to receive it. U never know what might happen tomorrow and I might need the money for something else. After I went to their site a couple weeks ago and saw the announcement that it got pushed back till September, I decided to just start tinkering and see what all it would take.

I'm pretty optimistic I can pull it off. Although I will provably still buy theirs if they come out with it before the end of the year, but I'm having a really great time learning about all this stuff. If anything I'll just publish what I do open source to give people cheaper DIY alternative. Maybe someone who actually knows what they are doing can improve upon it.