|
By hcameron90 - 12 Years Ago
|
|
For some reason my avatar has a glitch when I zoom out. Is it the lighting or what??
|
|
By Cricky - 12 Years Ago
|
|
hcameron90 (6/18/2014) For some reason my avatar has a glitch when I zoom out. Is it the lighting or what??
Your skin and cloth are fighting for position. Not sure where you got it from, but the clothing needs a "push" to lift it off the skin.
|
|
By hcameron90 - 12 Years Ago
|
yea something is weird about this. because I was working with this Avatars animation with no props or anything else and it was fine. But when I brought the avatar in a new project the glicth started to show.
So how would I fix the skin and material?
Do I set the opacity to 0?
|
|
By Cricky - 12 Years Ago
|
|
hcameron90 (6/18/2014) yea something is weird about this. because I was working with this Avatars animation with no props or anything else and it was fine. But when I brought the avatar in a new project the glicth started to show.
So how would I fix the skin and material?
Do I set the opacity to 0?
How to fix it is a loaded question. I still don't know where the model originated, so it's hard to answer.
Setting the skin to opacity Zero may work but, once again, it depends on where the model started.
UV layout affects the areas that will be affected when choosing what to make invisible, so knowing the source or looking at the current UV layout would help.
|
|
By Peter (RL) - 12 Years Ago
|
|
hcameron90 (6/18/2014) yea something is weird about this. because I was working with this Avatars animation with no props or anything else and it was fine. But when I brought the avatar in a new project the glicth started to show.
So how would I fix the skin and material?
Do I set the opacity to 0?You can also try adding a solid black image to the "Opacity" channel of the upper and lower Skin texture. The process will work the same as explained HERE for G5 CloneCloth.
|
|
By hcameron90 - 12 Years Ago
|
I wonder if it's just the G5 Eddie avatar. I took a screen shot of 3 G5 eddie avatars and 1 G5 Chuck avatar.
When I zoom out the skin and cloth of G5 Eddie glitches but Not the G5 Chuck.
Here's the image..
|
|
By Peter (RL) - 12 Years Ago
|
|
hcameron90 (6/18/2014) I wonder if it's just the G5 Eddie avatar. I took a screen shot of 3 G5 eddie avatars and 1 G5 Chuck avatar.
When I zoom out the skin and cloth of G5 Eddie glitches but Not the G5 Chuck.
Here's the image..Sounds like a graphical glitch. Try updating your graphics drivers to see if this helps. Also try switching to "Quick Shader" to see if the problem goes away. That will prove it is a graphics issue.
|
|
By Alley - 12 Years Ago
|
I can confirm that this does not happen on my screen when I set up the same scene. Of note is that Chuck Default does not have skin under his clothes. Eddie does, plus he has double layer clothing. I have seen this occasionally on other double layer with skin clothing but it likely comes down to a graphics issue as Peter says.
You could also try selecting one of the layers and checking "Alpha Threshold" to see if that works. It's not ideal for closeups as it leaves a sort of jaggie edge but for distance it should help.
|
|
By Bigboss - 12 Years Ago
|
|
I apologize for commenting but if I don't, the user will waste his time. This is not a graphical card issue, this is because the inner Cloth Layer is too close to the outer Cloth layer and when you zoom out, you loose resolution and the renderer sees both layers on the same plane. if Alley cannot reproduce this, then it may be that your preferences settings are different than hers. 1) Make sure your iClone preference settings allow for maximum texture resolution (8192 x 8192) in the viewport. 2) Load character 3) Move camera away from character If the problem persist, then the Cloth needs to be fixed. Hope this helps... :)
|
|
By Alley - 12 Years Ago
|
|
I noticed in your picture that the camera was set at 450 mm and then zoomed out. I think that is the problem. Below I have camera set at the same and zoom out. You can see the issue with BB Cloth (Hutch), Reallusion CC (Chuck) Eddie (Cellygon) and Vit 3D cloth 
Now, set the camera to 20 mm and zoom out, there is no issue. So, it is possible for you to reset the camera? I don't think that anybody's cloth needs fixing, I think it's an issue with iClone and the camera setting. 
And the reason you don't see it with Chuck Default, is because he is a single layer cloth with no skin underneath. The rest have skin. Also, changing your resolution setting has no effect on this.
|
|
By Bigboss - 12 Years Ago
|
|
The good news is that Chuck BB Cloth clearly stands out as the best resiliant Cloth in this picture for all camera angles :P Honestly, My point was to avoid sending the end user on the wrong track... Alley, you do not need to turn this into a fight. :) So we all agree it is not a graphics card issue !!! :D Cheers!
|
|
By hcameron90 - 12 Years Ago
|
Thanks for the helpful tips. However Unfortunately i'm still having the same problem.
Peter
I have a HP Pavilion g7 with AMD Quad-Core A8-4500M Accelerated Processor. I checked for an update and my laptop doesn't need it.
Changing the opacity only did a little and "Quick Shader" didn't solve it as well.
BigBoss
I turned my settings to (8192 x 8192) as well as (16384 x 16384), moved the camera back and switched the lens and nothing happened. It may be the cloth because when I'm working in the project the cloth and still skin glitches. But when i start a new project with just the avatars. then its just fine.
Could it be the project ( with the 4 lights, less than 10 props, sky, water, and 1 camera )that im working in that's causing this because this happened to me before when I was working on a previous project but somehow it stopped.
Alley
I tried the camera and lens trick but still no result.
So my guess is it's the cloth and if so is there a way to tweak Eddie's cloth because I tried setting Eddie's skin opacity to zero and still the same result. All so I notice some of my props ( city buildings ) having a little glitch as well.
I hope you can help with this I would gladly appreciate it. thanks
|
|
By Bigboss - 12 Years Ago
|
|
1) If you load just Eddy in a new project, and then move the camera away from eddy, do you see the problem increasing or you do not see the problem? 2) Then as you add your props, at which point does the problem start appearing? 3) The other thing that comes to mind is if you have applied a motion that is not very clean to eddy. It could cause the skin or torax to pierce through... 4) Or ... Do you have some transparent object (like a glass) between Eddy and the Camera? iClone will only handle one level of transparency properly between the camra and the target object. But if you say that turning opacity off for the skin does not fix the issue then do this: 1) Make sure that there are no more layers between the Jacket and the skin, you may be turning opacity off for the skin layer but there is a Shirt Layer between the skin and the jacket (I suspect there is and this is the layer that is causing the issue). Simply turn opacity off for this shirt layer and the problem should disappear... Which means that layer is too close to the Jacket which is the Cloth issue I was referring to. But the good news is you can fix it with an opacity map applied to the shirt layer :) Normally You should have access to that additional shirt layer from the modify material pull down menu when the avatar and UPPER TAB is selected but I did not design the Cloth so I am not sure ...:) Hope this helps.
|
|
By Alley - 12 Years Ago
|
|
Here is a shot with my settings you can see the camera at 465 mm 
and here is one that shows the camera setting at 20mm 
Could you post a screen shot of eddie with the camera at the same setting to show the issue still exists? I don't see how the suggestion of fixing the cloth makes sense because it would mean that every cloth developer had issues to fix. I think that when you have double layer cloth with skin underneath it, it causes this issue with the camera, regardless of whose cloth it is. The only way to avoid it is to have a simplified character like chuck default who has no skin under his clothes. I am sure there are more technical people here who can explain the reason this happens but the only way to avoid it is to have simple single layer cloth with no skin. I think it's great that we have so many different cloth systems that allow such great designs that it just is a matter of working around this with camera shots. Here is another shot of random characters - one is G2, another BB character - the problem exists with all of them - it can be eliminated by setting the camera back to 20mm and then zooming to where you need your shot. 
|
|
By Bigboss - 12 Years Ago
|
|
Explanation: 1) Lets say shirt layer distance to Jacket is 1mm and Camera distance is 1 meters, then to the camera lens, the distance between the shirt and the jacket is 1/1000 of the total distance. 2) Now put the camera at 100 meters away from the avatar (or change the Camera lens to wide angle which changes the focal distance and cause the same effect), the shirt distance to the Jacket is now 1/100000 = 0.00001 of the total distance which with rounding and optimization after calculations may cause the Camera to see shirt and jacket on the same plane. That's the issue I see with the posted images which should be easily fixed by using an Opacity map on the shirt layer as long as the Cloth makes the Shirt layer available to the end user !!! :cool: Alley is really good at texturing so I am sure she can provide an opacity map fix for you :) I could fix the Cloth for you but unfortunately, because of the watermarks, I wont be able to export the character in 3dXchange. :) Cheers!
|
|
By Cellygon - 12 Years Ago
|
This isn't a problem with graphic cards. I do notice this as well. This is a problem with iclone. As the problem can be reproduced with all characters. Yes this includes bigboss' AMAZING cloth characters too. ;)
And it's not how the cloth is made, the problem is just more pronounced with tightly fitting clothing with camera lens at 300mm or more. I am aware of this issues within iclone but if I push out my cloth from each other to fix it then you'll end up with unfitted bulky clothing that will look unnatural like some older cloth you see on the market. And you end up losing the clothing style the I wanted to present.
If you keep the camera lens below 200mm, you'll be fine. You won't see the problem. At least I don't on all my character testing.
By the way, bigboss' hutch is wearing baggy pants. problem will be more pronounced if he were to wear skinny tight jeans. just saying....
|
|
By Rampa - 12 Years Ago
|
I learned some really cool info on z-sorting from this interchange. Thanks!
Perhaps it would be good if all developers provided an opacity map for the skin layer to go with each article of clothing. A bit more work, I know, but probably very helpful for the odd poke through.:)
|
|
By Alley - 12 Years Ago
|
Hi Rampa - I tried doing opacity maps for this sort of thing. The issue is that it would have to be so precise - for example with Eddie in that sweater. There are two upper layers. The under shirt layer would need the opacity to cover the under shirt at the exact point where the over sweater met the under sweater. I got it pretty close, but I could not get it 100% as there are no guide lines. You either still allow a sliver of skin to show, or you need it to overlap at least a little - which then does not eliminate the problem.
Even if you get that 100% right - you also have to create an opacity layer for the skin. Because it's not just getting the 2nd layer right, there is still skin show through. So again, you would have to try and create an opacity map on the skin that precisely lines up to the outer edge of the upper cloth.
AND....you would have to provide these multiple opacity maps redesigned for every single different outfit.
Take Vit 3d Cloth with several layers. Imagine trying to get multiple opacity maps for every layer to line up perfectly - it's just not possible without taking hours and hours and risking ruining the final look.
If you keep banging your head against a wall, the simplest solution is not to put padding on the wall but to just stop banging your head. Why not just change up the camera for that particular scene - it's only a problem in this very rare circumstance where you have the camera set for extreme close, but then you zoom out.
As a person who does cloth outfits for Reallusion, Cellygon, Vit 3d, Bigboss and others, I know how difficult it would be to try and create opacity maps for this sort of situation. The reality is that it's just not feasible.
|
|
By planetstardragon - 12 Years Ago
|
|
I imagine this will be a thing of the past when IC6 comes out with the new rendering approach.
|
|
By justaviking - 12 Years Ago
|
|
planetstardragon (6/21/2014) I imagine this will be a thing of the past when IC6 comes out with the new rendering approach.We can hope.
|
|
By Alley - 12 Years Ago
|
This is quite possibly unrelated, but thought I would mention for those that might know. I did look up that z-sorting Rampa, interesting.
For those that have the 3D wilderness scenes that have been around forever, can you try loading any of them, particularly the Forest or the Woods. There seems to be some new behaviour where all the trees are fighting for priority causing a lot of flashing in the scene. If you render a still, it looks fine but a rendered video carries all this flashing with it.
Now - I don't remember this being an issue in the past and there was a recent video card update for nvidea.
Just wondering if this could be in issue with the update and if it could in any way be contributing to the problem.
Or do I have a setting wrong somewhere....I tried messing with just about every setting in iClone and it made no difference. Here is an example of what I mean - this is the Jungle.
|
|
By justaviking - 12 Years Ago
|
|
@Alley, Just add some music. :) Very psychedelic. :w00t:
|
|
By theschemer - 12 Years Ago
|
|
Alley (6/21/2014) This is quite possibly unrelated, but thought I would mention for those that might know. I did look up that z-sorting Rampa, interesting.
For those that have the 3D wilderness scenes that have been around forever, can you try loading any of them, particularly the Forest or the Woods. There seems to be some new behaviour where all the trees are fighting for priority causing a lot of flashing in the scene. If you render a still, it looks fine but a rendered video carries all this flashing with it.
Now - I don't remember this being an issue in the past and there was a recent video card update for nvidea.
Just wondering if this could be in issue with the update and if it could in any way be contributing to the problem.
Or do I have a setting wrong somewhere....I tried messing with just about every setting in iClone and it made no difference. Here is an example of what I mean - this is the Jungle.
There is a new beta driver out 340.43 for NVidia. Are you using that one? I am on the latest non-beta driver 337.88 and see the issue in your video above but don't want to update quite yet if the new beta has the same issue. TS
|
|
By Alley - 12 Years Ago
|
I have 337.88.
Do you have the World Wilderness to see if you have the same issue?
|
|
By hcameron90 - 12 Years Ago
|
Ok
The shirt and skin opacity option: This doesn't do any thing as Alley mentions. Especially trying to get the two 100% accurately aligned. Also, there is no transparent object between the avatar and camera.
As far as the camera and lens option: I took four different screen shots. Two at 465mm and 20mm than I have two at 79mm. one is scaled back and the other is just a default position.
I even tried starting a whole new project but I had the same result. And Alley in that demo video, I've had that same problem in a pass video I made with trees. But that was when had v5.5 but was fixed after v5.51.
So if its not the skin or camera or g2-g5 characters than is this just an Ic6 updated solution?
|
|
By hcameron90 - 12 Years Ago
|
|
the forth photo....79 mm scaled back.
|
|
By hcameron90 - 12 Years Ago
|
|
Also I wont be able to get the right shot If i keep the lens at 20mm.
|
|
By planetstardragon - 12 Years Ago
|
|
ic6 will be on DX11, we are currently on DX9 - plus the tessellation option and smoothing, it's bound to radically change the way things work now. Just a guess though.
|
|
By Rampa - 12 Years Ago
|
|
Alley (6/21/2014) Hi Rampa - I tried doing opacity maps for this sort of thing. The issue is that it would have to be so precise - for example with Eddie in that sweater. There are two upper layers. The under shirt layer would need the opacity to cover the under shirt at the exact point where the over sweater met the under sweater. I got it pretty close, but I could not get it 100% as there are no guide lines. You either still allow a sliver of skin to show, or you need it to overlap at least a little - which then does not eliminate the problem.
Even if you get that 100% right - you also have to create an opacity layer for the skin. Because it's not just getting the 2nd layer right, there is still skin show through. So again, you would have to try and create an opacity map on the skin that precisely lines up to the outer edge of the upper cloth.
AND....you would have to provide these multiple opacity maps redesigned for every single different outfit.
Take Vit 3d Cloth with several layers. Imagine trying to get multiple opacity maps for every layer to line up perfectly - it's just not possible without taking hours and hours and risking ruining the final look.
If you keep banging your head against a wall, the simplest solution is not to put padding on the wall but to just stop banging your head. Why not just change up the camera for that particular scene - it's only a problem in this very rare circumstance where you have the camera set for extreme close, but then you zoom out.
As a person who does cloth outfits for Reallusion, Cellygon, Vit 3d, Bigboss and others, I know how difficult it would be to try and create opacity maps for this sort of situation. The reality is that it's just not feasible.
I would agree that it's more trouble than it's worth!;) Perhaps there is some other rendering trick that can make underlying polys disappear, that RL could implement.
The Z-sorting stuff will often show up with things like edges of hair over glasses, or anywhere else there is multiple layers of transparency (or semi-transparency). So overlapping leaves would have the issue because they use opacity for their shape, being that they are basicaslly just rectangular planes.
I first learned about this using Moviestorm, and found a solution (for overlapping opacity). That was to use non-feathered masks, I.E., pure black and white. From this, I try and always make my cutting opacity maps high-res. 1 bit images, and save them as PNG's. JPEGS tend to get fuzzy edges with a bit of gray.
|
|
By theschemer - 12 Years Ago
|
|
Alley (6/21/2014) I have 337.88.
Do you have the World Wilderness to see if you have the same issue?
No, but I will buy it as I happen to have a coupon. ;) I will report back after I try it. I am buying Volume 1 as that one suits me best. TS
Edit: Alley, it looked ok to me but maybe if you give me your output parameters I can test again. I just used MP4 HD720P and it played back fine with the Woods.
|
|
By Alley - 12 Years Ago
|
Oh dear, I am sorry you had to buy it. Here is the thing, when I rebooted the computer and re-started iClone, that behaviour as in my video was not happening the same. Well, it was happening a little, but nothing like that video. I can't explain it and I wish I had thought to do that sooner.
I am so sorry you had to spend the money.. :crying:
|
|
By peppie - 12 Years Ago
|
|
Interesting that no one has reported this problem b4 now.Iclone 5.5 has been out a long time.So I take it no-one uses actors in their scenes until now. Screwing with 5.5 and plugging 6. Go figure.:Whistling:
|
|
By theschemer - 12 Years Ago
|
|
Alley (6/22/2014) Oh dear, I am sorry you had to buy it. Here is the thing, when I rebooted the computer and re-started iClone, that behaviour as in my video was not happening the same. Well, it was happening a little, but nothing like that video. I can't explain it and I wish I had thought to do that sooner.
I am so sorry you had to spend the money.. :crying:
Alley, You have helped me and I am positive many others here so I was just trying to help in a way I could. I have watched many of your videos on clothes and have read your informative posts. I can use the 3D scenes anyhow. I am glad you got it sorted out. :) Thanks, TS
|
|
By animagic - 12 Years Ago
|
|
peppie (6/22/2014) Interesting that no one has reported this problem b4 now.Iclone 5.5 has been out a long time.So I take it no-one uses actors in their scenes until now. Screwing with 5.5 and plugging 6. Go figure.:Whistling:Of course we use actors in our scenes, and unless you use lenses with an extreme focal length, there is nothing out the ordinary to report. I have never felt the need for more than 80mm, which works fine. It is a limitation of CloneCloth as BigBoss has explained; you will encounter the same in iClone 4. Again, it is not problem in 99.999% of the cases and no reason to gloat or feel clever. I bet it wasn't a problem for you either.
|
|
By Peter (RL) - 12 Years Ago
|
|
Thanks to Bigboss and Alley for their help in solving the OP's issue. Clearly you are both more eagle eyed than myself as I didn't initially notice the long lens being used. Actually you should be able to get up to 400mm without the effect occurring as long as you don't use Zoom (Z) to zoom out. If you only zoom in the effect doesn't occur or is very minimal. Thanks again.
|
|
By Peter (RL) - 12 Years Ago
|
|
hcameron90 (6/21/2014) Also I wont be able to get the right shot If i keep the lens at 20mm.Can you not use a slightly longer lens like 80 - 100mm and then just use Zoom (Z) to frame everything accordingly, or are you looking for a specific effect that you can only get with the high lens value?
|