Kinect SDK & Driver Options Explained

Kinect SDK & Driver Options Explained

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https://forum.reallusion.com/Topic113366.aspx

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By Peter (RL) - 13 Years Ago

Reallusion provides all 3 options for Kinect users;

a. The OpenNI driver and SDK are provided by PrimeSense, the chip manufacturer of Kinect sensors. Due to it’s original SDK license policy, users can feel free to use it in commercial projects.

b. The Microsoft Kinect SDK Beta 2 is provided by Microsoft for application development on Xbox Kinect hardware. Users can get a free SDK download from the Microsoft website.

http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/details.aspx?id=28782

Before the release of the Kinect for Windows version, Reallusion provided this beta version to share the new improvements made by Microsoft. Due to Microsoft's policy, this version is only for testing and does not grant commercial rights to end users. Please take note that this policy comes directly from Microsoft and not Reallusion, and Reallusion will not be responsible for how the end-user decides to use this development SDK. For more information, please refer to the original statement by Microsoft.

http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/details.aspx?id=27876 "overview" section, line 2.

c. Now Microsoft has officially released the new Kinect for Windows SDK and hardware for Windows 7 and above users. This version includes full commercial rights for product development and application outputs, but it will only work with Microsoft's Kinect for Windows hardware. Please take note that this policy comes directly from Microsoft and not Reallusion. Reallusion simply facilitates users with all three options.

As Reallusion has partnered with Microsoft on Kinect for Windows development, we will keep adding new features based on Microsoft's official releases. Reallusion will continue providing options to users who use either the Kinect for Xbox or Kinect for Windows hardware.

By vidi - 13 Years Ago

Microsoft's Kinect for Windows hardware

with the windows kinect device, is there a difference in the quality of capturing ?

By isdom24 - 13 Years Ago

I have two kinect for xbox 360 cameras. I also have two power adapters with the usb port. I currently habe one plugged into my macbookpro running on windows 7 (via bootcamp).

Will Microsoft SDK drivers work on my Kinect for xbox camera with the power supply and usb port?

I would like the head and wrist details.

Thanks

By isdom24 - 13 Years Ago

Also , can Iclone export .bvh files?

Can I record my mo cap with the kinect for xbox with external power supply in Iclone, Then export that same mo cap data as a .bvh file to blender?

Thank you

By thebiz.movies - 13 Years Ago

Due to Microsoft's policy, this version is only for testing and does not grant commercial rights to end users.

Does this mean I could not sell the motions I create using Beta SDK on the marketplace?

Does this mean I could not use the motions I create in a commercial application such as a business training video or a commercial feature?

By Peter (RL) - 13 Years Ago

vidi (2/24/2012)

Microsoft's Kinect for Windows hardware

with the windows kinect device, is there a difference in the quality of capturing ?

I don't think there is any difference right now in actual quality but the Kinect For Windows sensor is the device that Microsoft will be developing the SDK for in the future. This may impact on future features or improvements in capturing.

By Peter (RL) - 13 Years Ago

isdom24 (3/2/2012)

I have two kinect for xbox 360 cameras. I also have two power adapters with the usb port. I currently habe one plugged into my macbookpro running on windows 7 (via bootcamp).

Will Microsoft SDK drivers work on my Kinect for xbox camera with the power supply and usb port?

I would like the head and wrist details.

Thanks

If you are using Kinect For XBox sensors then you should use the Microsoft Kinect SDK Beta 2 plugin. The newer Microsoft Kinect SDK For Windows is not supported on the Xbox devices.

By Peter (RL) - 13 Years Ago

thebiz.movies (3/2/2012)

Correct. Mocap motions created using the Beta SDK can not be used commercially in any way. That includes the Marketplace or commercial training videos I'm afraid.

By Peter (RL) - 13 Years Ago

isdom24 (3/2/2012)

Also , can Iclone export .bvh files?

Can I record my mo cap with the kinect for xbox with external power supply in Iclone, Then export that same mo cap data as a .bvh file to blender?

Thank you

No it can't I'm afraid. However you will be able to export BVH files with the new 3DXchange5 Pipeline Edition which is due out later in the year. :)

By bobkat2000 - 13 Years Ago

So then, the MS Beta SDK is a waste of time and money if no motions can be used.

Also, there is a huge difference in the quality of the OpenNI version and the MS Beta SDK. OpenNI is barely useable, if at all.

By Apparition - 13 Years Ago

Hi folks!

I am retaking the Kinect setup and research on its powers.

I have a question, as there is great confusion:

I Purchased a Kinect Xbox 360, but it comes with the adapter cable for extra power.

Then: Am I restricted to the Beta software by Microsoft or can I use the official release?

I do not really think there is a substantial difference between "Kinect for Windows" And the Xbox version. It sounds to me like a commercial plot to take over the Kinect sales by MS.

Can someone help me advising:

Should I stick to the Beta software or can I use the newest final version of it?

Thanks for responses!

By Apparition - 13 Years Ago

Peter:
I read lines where you say "Motions created with Beta software could not be sold... etc."

I don´t think that is realistic at all. Once a motion is captured inside iClone its data format is iClone proprietary and has no difference whatsoever with any other motion file available. It is impossible to tell if a motion file came from the xbox or not worse to tell if it was captured with certain Kinect drivers.

Am I wrong? May be there is a mistake in saying "the motions cannot be sold at either marketplace or any place?"

I don't think so. The Microsoft restrictions have to do with Software products developed with the SKD kit. It means programs or plugins which communicate with the Kinect sensor. Not with derived motions from it.

Let's understand it clearly. The restriction has to do with SOFTWARE product development for commercial use. Not with motions obtained with either means.

Mike.

By Peter (RL) - 13 Years Ago

bobkat2000 (3/3/2012)

The original release of the iClone5 Mocap Device Plugin included the Open NI based SDK which could be used commercially. The Microsoft Kinect SDK Beta was introduced later at no extra charge as a bonus download. You are not paying any money for this Beta SDK. It is purely included as a free bonus for Kinect For Xbox users. However any motions you create using the MS Beta SDK can be used for your own personal use.

By Peter (RL) - 13 Years Ago

Apparition (3/5/2012)

I Purchased a Kinect Xbox 360, but it comes with the adapter cable for extra power.

Then: Am I restricted to the Beta software by Microsoft or can I use the official release

Hi Mike

If you have purchased a Kinect sensor designed for Xbox then you can only use the MS Kinect Beta SDK or the Open NI version. The full release version of the MS SDK is only for the Kinect For Windows sensor.

By Peter (RL) - 13 Years Ago

Apparition (3/5/2012)

I don´t think that is realistic at all. Once a motion is captured inside iClone its data format is iClone proprietary and has no difference whatsoever with any other motion file available. It is impossible to tell if a motion file came from the xbox or not worse to tell if it was captured with certain Kinect drivers.

It really isn't an issue if there is no way of detecting where the motion file came from. The license from Microsoft (Not Reallusion) clearly states that motions created with the Beta SDK can't be used commercially. If you knowingly do so you would be in breach of those licensing terms, even if you consider that no one will ever find out.

By Apparition - 13 Years Ago

Thanks for the answer Peter!

Could you please point to the document where the restriction is stated?

Thanks for taking the bother!

P.S. ( I do not understand the issue. How could you commit an EULA violation by using your beta motions. for products?

A breach can occur only if the software is duplicated or otherwise manipulated. As I said, there is no difference between one file or another. In simple words: Would be a way for Microsoft to "detect" a motion file came from a beta version? Just in such case there would be a breach!

This is a crazy world of bans and prohibitions!

No intention to create controversy. Just an issue that need to be clearly solved!

Mike

By thebiz.movies - 13 Years Ago

"However, non-commercial deployments using Kinect for Xbox 360, which were allowed using the SDK beta, are no longer permitted.

Developers are encouraged to take advantage of the additional features and updates available with the Kinect for Windows SDK v1, which enables the development of commercial applications using Kinect for Windows hardware and systems running Windows operating systems."

I suppose the term deployment could refer to the motion itself but that would not have been my first guess. Are we positive that this term is referring to the motion and not a programmed application?

By Apparition - 13 Years Ago

Thebiz.movies:

So far, for "deployment" it is understood as an application (APPS) using a certain SDK.

It is not the produced file or material what is deployed. It is the software libraries which integrate a certain functional application which are deployed!

Example: You can download a Text Editor C++ set of routines. With those you compile a simple text editor program. With the text editor you write a book. Now: You cannot sell the text editor you compiled because it has been done by deploying the C++ libraries to make the editor.
But of course you can sell the book! It is just a plain file, with the .txt extension, no different from another .txt file.

Regarding restrictions it is important to undertand it's meaning prior to feel constrained by them.

Definition of: deployment

Installing, setting up, testing and running. This military term, which means the placement of troops and equipment in the field, is widely used with computers as an alternate to the word "implementation." For example, "XYZ software deployment" is the same as saying "XYZ software implementation." To "deploy" something is to "get it installed and running."

By thebiz.movies - 13 Years Ago

Apparition (3/5/2012)

Mike, I'm pretty much in agreement with you here. I was simply quoting the section that Peter referred too (and that you in turn asked him to quote to you). If Peter has been told directly that the issue is with the motions, then your and my own definition of the word deployment is not going to matter much.

By Apparition - 13 Years Ago

I know Thebiz.movies! We both agree! I was talking to John for Peter to listen! (Spanish saying)...

Actually it does not matter who says whatever. A motion file is only a motion file and, unless you didn't do it, you can give it away, sell it or modify it! If you did it, by tweaking, by doing Rellusion Puppet, by converting it from MAX into bvh Converter, by hand, or by a beta whatever, the motion is yours! Not "theirs".

It is like music. I've done quite a few songs using demo software to try it. They ended up being so good, I sold them for a commercial work!

No complaints whatsoever! It is a fair conclusion.

SDK means (Software Development Kit) When referring to SDK deployment means "using my SDK to do other software... That's a no, no... if I said no, no!" . Not the same as using a driver to drive some hardware and such combination produces a result. The driver issuer has no rights on the product of its working!

By planetstardragon - 13 Years Ago

I agree with mike,

If i borrowed your pencil and wrote a hit song, the song is mine, the pencil is yours.

By Peter (RL) - 13 Years Ago

planetstardragon (3/5/2012)

I agree with mike,

If i borrowed your pencil and wrote a hit song, the song is mine, the pencil is yours.

True but if that pencil came with a clear license agreement that stated you could not use it to make money commercially and you did, then you would be in breach of the license agreement. ;)

By Peter (RL) - 13 Years Ago

Apparition (3/5/2012)

It is like music. I've done quite a few songs using demo software to try it. They ended up being so good, I sold them for a commercial work!

No complaints whatsoever! It is a fair conclusion.

No complaints? But did you notifiy the makers of the demo software and inform them that you were making money from their demo software? They may have had a different opinion then.

Having no complaints because no one found out does not make it a legal action.

EULA's are there for a reason and while we may not like all the restrictions they bring it is in the best interest of the user to abide by them.

By planetstardragon - 13 Years Ago

@peter it then becomes a game of semantics - the software wasn't used to make money, i did not offer people to come over to pay for my services to take their mocap. The software was used to create a file. The file made money. - not challenging you per se' all these years working with the business guys in music just showed me how both sides think.

in a technical sense - ms owns the product that translates data, it does not own the data it outputs. if the data were ported to bvh, ms does not own the bvh tag or it's copyright. If a language translator demo taught me how to say yes in french, it could not restrict my right to say yes in french there after - but it can restrict my right in opening a shop that translates words for other people for a fee.

in a neutral view, the motion capture system should have never allowed the output of files if we couldn't do as we please with our ideas in our files.

in a real - street - ghetto view- you should have never made it so easy for me and tempted me lol.

besides, me personally i keyframe everything -halo over head- ;)

Edt - I think they put that there for the major game /movie maker corporations that set up hundreds of stations using betaware, and make millions without any intention to compensate microsoft. - it's worth sending feds to a labor factory under paying and over working employees and using every free software they can get. Its those guys that cause these blanket restrictions imo.

in that perspective, I say thank you microsoft for allowing out put to the little guys - they could have made it a proprietary format that would cost thousands of dollars to unlock, and cut us out.

By moviemachine - 13 Years Ago

Microsoft is the fool in foolishness.

Basically their SDK is a recording device.
What an absurd precedent lurks behind those Gates.

Won't be long before anything you compose or create on anything including word processors is in violation (after all a word processor allowed you to cut & paste!) ;)

Oh and that next video camera or dvd burner you buy will probably only allow you to playback your footage or creations on days under a full moon and those days must fall on Feb 30th :hehe::hehe::hehe: Oh and the playback must only be in your living room, bedrooms and kitchens are in violation due to potential risk of sex & violence!
Also having 2 or more lights turned on in your home at the same time when viewing footage is in flagrant violation of section A of the "let's have a look clause" in the EULA

Seriously though, software makers are within their right to pin any absurd limitations they dream up. Oh and once the TSA gets wind of things... ya won't be able to fire up your puter without an pat down!

Methinks that Microsoft in the head which usually is the Johnny come lately to the parties after the "real" innovators have paved the road with their creativity is attempting to muscle & herd away the supporters.

By planetstardragon - 13 Years Ago

true story - facebook actually took out a trademark on "book"

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/facebook-book-trademark/

How many Microsoft engineers does it take to change a light bulb?

A: None, they merely change the standard to darkness and then they upgrade the customers.

By animagic - 13 Years Ago

Fortunately, the Kinect didn't come from Apple... It would have been iKinect and completely closed. So, thank you, MS...