Daz is excellent for still image renders but its render times even then can be long. For animation with several characters, render times will be immense and could be in days rather than hours.

iClone works in realtime meaning what you see is what you get. This makes setting up your scenes much easier. Render times will be tiny compared against Daz and if you add in the easy way you can animate your avatars using stock motions or puppeteering profiles its really a no brainer as far as I'm compared.

Now you might say I'm biased, but I originally switched to iClone from using Poser/Daz because you can achieve in minutes what can take days in those products. :)

Preferably something usable for iClone without a lot of miscombobulations with other expensive 3rd party applications?

There is not a Hollywood Studio functioning that will use a Iclone renders in serious Visual Effects composition. I don't care how detailed you make it with normal maps, or bake your textures with an external program.  But plenty have use DAZ characters and props to replicate actual people in the background of shots, and compositing characters to do stunts where close ups are not needed of the primary actors, or people being eated by alien, or designing creatures. I know because I do it. Hence why I never have time in these forums to hang out. I don't use any part of Iclone for that. I use Iclone in a story board capacity in hashing out shots and actions. It is ideal for that level of instant visualization. But just because a program renders fast doesn't mean it can rival top professional results. And if your talking about a 90 minute feature, hopefully your not just doing it for fun, but intend to make a real profit off it or procuring investors dollars to take it to the next level and your using Iclone to give them an idea of what your trying to do. Right now, name one animated feature film you paid or anyone else has paid money to see using Iclone 5 or any previous version? See my point. But their are loads of  veterans of the program who can tell you everything techie you need to know about the program. And that fine, if you want to teach. But if your making a feature film for profit, your going to have to take it up a few notches my friend. I'm not saying it can't be done, but I'm yet to see it done with Iclone despite being a faster rending program and by those who know it inside and  out, and bashing DAZ and Poser rendering capabilites. There is no comparison to me.  

So it sound to me if your considering a 90 min animated movie, I would ask what are you striving in terms of its over all appearance first, and then use the program that delivers the look and professional results you want. Iclone is idea as a storyboard creator and perfect for hashing out everything in the movie from start to finish, but going pro where someone will actually pay to see it. I don't think so. Iclone shorts, some look nice, most are crap.  Compare the one above with this short that landed a FOX DEAL, and a live action movie negotiation as a director for this animator. Take note of the characters and the over all look of this short. Their is one shot, that looks a lot like Angelina Jolie with a short hair cut when she smiles. Pretty clear to see who could play that part.  

http://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/film/fox-turning-animated-scifi-short-rosa-liveaction-movie.html?utm_source=scribol&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=scribol,

This is your competition. Your story telling and animation better be this dam good for 90 minutes for what this guy did in 10 minutes and landed a movie deal. This is where it's at, unless you want to just teach Iclone 5, instead of being a real bonafide film maker. Good luck with your project and I wish you much success.

iClone is an affordable Hobbyst Home Consumer  Product, for those who want to Produce their own Vrtual Films, rather than producing Edited pre-Recorded Video, that are more realistic than MovieStorm & less realistic tham AutoDesk Products.

That being said, in expert & artistic hands, iClone is capable of producing some pretty realistc true-to-life Films.

iClone is a huge & versatile Program that has many  Applications other than Film-making. Eg; Virtual Classrooms. TV Advertising etc.

iClone is a Tool to be used as a means to an end. It's how you use the Tool that matters. But you need ro learn the Program from cover to cover, first. (Which I have yet to do). 

If you don't rate iClone, then don't purchase it in the first place;) 

Those who detract iClone are a very small minority. The majority like it. If they didn't, Reallusioin wouldn't remain in business.

I've yet to see a watchable Film produced in iClone or another Program by iClone detractors.

The fact that they haven't produced one, suggestrs to me that they don't have the expertise, in thr first place:ermm: 

Actions speak louder than words - So get on with producing those Films, using iClone..

Amen;)

You can cast your judgement when the Video's  completed.;)

I Posted that, to knock the iClone Animators knockers - Waiting for your response to that word, Wendy.;)

Show me a better Water flow & reflection animation in any any of the Thread's Topic Programs & I'll eat my mouse-mat.

@ sWooooooooooooooooooooP

Although DOF hasn't been applied, if it had, the Background is what you'd get. The Image at the early stages is as  good as any  I've seen Recorded with HD SLR Cameras  Posted on Video Friends Forum.

Also, if you want to see animation in iClone according to your liking or standards, you'll have to do it yourself. And that takes time and effort.

You know, I never tried a dragon-slaying movie; could be fun...:unsure:

My example is a Frame from an Animation, produced at the very beginning of Warlord's Tut. It isn't intended to be an "Artistic" Still Image.

There are many effects to be added as we go through the Tutorial, to give that "Film Look".

My Post referred to the iClone Default Water Template "As is". IMO, None of the aforementioned Programs can better that realism.  

I think the required quality also depends on the distribution medium. For a theatrical production, I may need a render farm with 10,000 or so PCs, but other than that, it may be overkill, especially online. Also, you can only strife for the best quality given the tools available. So if that happens to be iClone, then iClone it is. Sometimes technology (or the lack of it) seems to be used as an excuse to not make that film.

I use iClone and I do respect my audience. What else can I do?  

And it never should be good enough, if it was there would be no Iclone 6 :D Look how far Iclone has come over a very few years .. It did not get to the tool it is today by people saying "You know what, this will do"

I recon in the future Iclones real time render feature will be only a option next to a wider set of render tools ..

When synthesizers allowed people without access to orchestras or the talent of professional musicians to create music, we were told that it wasn’t real music or worthy of acceptance by the public.

When computers and CGI software first appeared, they allowed people without access to animation studios or the talent of professional animators to create movies. We were told that wasn’t real animation or worthy of acceptance by the public.

Ah, the irony of today’s professionals, using synthesizers and CGI software, telling us that work produced by iClone is not real animation or worthy of acceptance by the public.

I recently completed a short, THERE BE MONSTERS! which had some success on the film festival circuit, culminating in an award for 3rd place (animation) at the 2011 My Hero Film Festival. Others winning awards at this festival included George Lucas, so I was in good company; but the point is that without iClone, my film would not have been made and I would not have spent a memorable year showing it at film festivals. I looked at Maya, Vue, Carrara and Daz Studio – none were viable in the timeframes which I had for this project.

Over the course of the year, I met and spoke to several film-makers, who had the best software, budgets in the millions, and even hopes of Emmy and Oscar nominations. They asked questions about iClone and how we made our movie. All were impressed with what we were able to achieve without high-end software. None of these people dismissed iClone as a hobbyist’s toy.

I agree with Mike and Paumanok – for me, the story is paramount. And the quality of the finished product counts for nothing if the product is never finished.

Granted, I did not create a 90 minute blockbuster. We are still in the baby step stages, but the work of today is a building block. The software will continue to get better; our animations will continue to get better, and one day we will have this same argument about the next upstart that encroaches on the territory of the professionals.

Regards,

Tom Weston

http://tom-weston.com

I want my money's-worth from my investment in iClone & Content. So, I'll continue Producing Ugly ones.:D 

The Self-appointed "Artists" can criticize them as much as they like. I don't care;)

Moreover, I use other software besides iClone. For example, sound design is external; music composition is external; video editing is external, graphic design is external, some of the modeling is external. 

But I don't think that I'm able or need to explain how I work and have worked with technology in art (for over 40 years now), how limitations have shaped my art at times, but never, never, has the technology enslaved me.  Of course, you don't have to believe me, that's fine too.

You could buy stick men Flip Books.

planetstardragon (1/12/2012)

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I attached a stickman project I started in crazy talk animator, make a hit!! \:w00t:/

Now he may have been somewhat limited by the tools he used, but that didn't bother him.

Now what was that Clip with a Stickman destroying Windows? User Interface with a lassoo?

And I think Wolf? produced a hilarious Stick Man Clip, walking-off his PC Monitor onto his Keyboard:D 

:D:D:D:D

Hi Robert,

I agree with your request in updating iClone 5 with better collision detection. It always makes the animation looks less when props and clothing and hair are always poking through the avatar... Don't know why.. Reallusion knows what collision detection is... They use it with physics! But I've put this issue at many forums but never getting an answer from Reallusion.:angry: