After a few days tediously and relentlessly testing in iClone 7, I managed to create a modified CC3+ character as a Cloth to apply physics. 
If you would like to see a simple Soft body Character Physics in iClone 8 please vote here https://www.reallusion.com/FeedBackTracker/Issue/Request-to-allow-Softbody-Physics-on-character-s-skin-influenced-areas-are-to-determined-by-weight-map-painting


I've also been testing out cloth against cloth and cloth with object interaction (recently had one cloth character punching another  . ) I have experience using unity and can point out some obvious issues

Also displacement mapping for SkinGen is possible. I know what iClone/CC3 has and needs to make displacement for SkinGen and softbody in iClone/CC3 possible but I'd need to be, should be part of any beta testing.. I'm a CCD member and have been invested as an Elite Customer several times, I have contributed a lot of personal time and resources to deeply test and solve these problems that others working for Reallusion would normally get paid to do and really I wish I was getting paid for R&D to get some thing in return.

Here is a CC3+ Character I created professionally with displacement mapping.. It took a few years testing here and there to figure out how to get this working with iClone since there were no tutorials and no examples of full characters using it without cracks.   Again I know how to create characters without cracks, know what would be required to add to SkinGen to make it work -most tech already exists but there is a bit more that needs to be added to eliminate cracks. In this project I didn't have to mess around with any multipliers.. but people could on default character to get the skin/wrinkles displaced and actually look bumpy.. but there is a problem.. some of skingen's normal map layering seems to cause artifacts (odd shadows that don't move with lighting angle)This likely because it is just layering and not mathematically adjusting pixels on the right axis to properly mix normals. To follow and vote for displacement mapping you can vote here: https://www.reallusion.com/FeedBackTracker/Issue/Missing-Corresponding-Displacement-maps-of-scars-tendons-wrinkles-pores-burns-etc-Unsatisfied-Purchase



This is what I was talking about that users can create displacement instantly with their characters skin but there is a trick..
Using a normal map as a displacement texture  and adjusting the image softness to 1.0 you will get some good displacement!
You have to either manually paint the left and right side of the normal map with clone brush to match the pixels or cheat by mirroring the left to the right or vice versa. Any area connecting material parts need to have similar pixel tone otherwise it tells the verts to go in different direction causing a tear/crack in between UV materials.
  

In order to do things properly in Skingen, users paying for it shouldn't have to make these kinds of corrections and that's where I come in. SkinGen could be made to work to have a global tiling texture as well as assigning it to particular areas. 

Lastly using soft cloth and Displacement mapping compliment each other. They both bring realism/complexity to the character and using cloth, little to no tessellation is required for displacement because cloth subdivision gives cloth extra verts.. in fact if you enabled both, your renders or computer would likely come to a crawl so using them together just decreases performance just a little more rather than overkill. 




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Really cool! Can I ask what are the current drawbacks/limitations of your current implementation with iClone as it is at present?

1. Currently, soft cloth body and head must be two separate meshes if someone wants the facial expressions to work.. the head mesh must be assigned as a "full beard" in order for the head as cloth to be tracked. I have mentioned this on the feedback tracker that they could just allow tracking on an existing character with their cloth tracking tech they added to the beard so it can conform to facial expressions. If setup as two meshes the head might need opacity from the neck down but using opacity doesn't work with Iray's SSS.. so it best for Reallusion to reenable physics for characters so we don't need to split characters, copy weights and textures, have larger file size etc

2. Cloth vs rigid body interaction barely works without enabling cloth vs cloth collision in global settings. For me enabling it crashes but it might be my video card. With it off it barely works if the object colliders is set to self mesh. currently iClone uses CPU to power physX, GPU might be better. The solver should be under 400 low as 300 at this time, any higher and it could slow the realtime playback.

3. Reallusion may simply need to give us the option to increase collider resolution on both objects and cloth -this is known in game engines to produce better interaction and prevent cloth breakage.

4. Takes a lot of time & understanding to prep a character to be cloth.. if Reallusion reenabled physics for characters in iClone and included the painting tools from CC3 for physics painting, users would be able to rapidly test and use on any kind of character! but otherwise it can take a day or two having the knowledge and tools how to do it, but once you have it you don't need to do more.

So in the raw, unpolished, underdeveloped form, it runs excellent so far but really needs love, development & optimizations for cloth vs cloth interactions. My video card might have issues so I'm working with someone right now to help confirm either my video card issue, a glitch etc. If this were to be developed decent enough we could put animated lung model inside to simulate breathing or poke, hit, pull skin level interactivity. Facial expressions also may likely be more realistic.




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Cool, sounds like it would make it possible for much more realistic character interactions as well as more realism in general.. fantastic.
I won't ask for a how-to, sounds quite involved at this stage. Unless you wanted to write it up!

Yes sorry it is a bit too involved for specific directions that's why I'm trying to get the votes up to make it available to everyone with minimal work but I will say that
1.I exported the character with FBX key and imported it into akeytsu to copy weights to a copy of the same body to be used as cloth but also because it now can be a cloth you can then save the cloth for other morphed characters and use the weight transfer to transfer the character weight to a CC3+ character that you've modified in Zbrush then sent back to Character Creator as cloth.

2.Then you'd have to paint black and white physics textures that define what skin areas move and how much. The painting part I can't describe, it should be a working template available to users and modifiable in iClone to be able to quickly create and test. Currently I have to export textures from Zbrush but it would be ideal if we can get have a physics paint tool built off Character creator's weight painting tool that paints greyscale. This then could be applied to animals and other creatures (without the human physics template)

3. Adjust physics settings and strength of cloth which can be adjusted in the texture brightness and contrast - my textures have been made to work out of the box but can be adjusted to create more or less flexibility.

What ever I create now other users would be able to apply to their own characters as I have a working template  (cloth file & physics textures and physics ini settings) I'd have to modify my physics textures for a male template. Again, all a user would have to do once having the template is transfer the character weights from my cloth file to their character imported back to Character creator as cloth from Blender using the FBX key method or Zbrush.
Once Reallusion reenables Soft Physics for Characters there would be no need to make the character a cloth from external methods then all that's left for a user to modify would be the physics painting in iClone and lastly the tech that they use for tracking cloth on their beard system should be on by default once Character Cloth Physics is enabled.

 

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Brill thanks, here's hoping it does become a part of iClone 8!

Hi Ascensi

Thank you for your efforts with this and for explaining your workflow. You have certainly put a lot of time into this. 

I will pass on your findings to the iClone team for them to review. Should I have more information to share about physics in iClone 8 I will let you know. 


                                                                

Peter
Forum Administrator

www.reallusion.com

Thank you Peter, appreciate it!

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Hi Ascensi,
I have one question--did you have any issues sending your normals-in-displacement character to iClone or exporting as an iAvatar? I managed it once, but now I try, CC3 crashes. 

Thanks!
Nicole

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RL  - If only there was a paradigm for CC to emulate, and even make a HD Transformer to, that would involve 2 meshes so something like this could be incorporated into...
Eh?!!!!!
EH!!!!?