I can not see the Mouth Viseme In iClone 3DXChange 7.8 Pipeline: Issue 7782

Hello.
I am having problems making the lips sync look real when I use the BMP and FV Visemes.
The shapes do not look real and so I thought I would edit my Character in Iclone 3DXChange 7.8 Pipeline.
Once I got my character in 3DXChange 7.8 Pipeline I opened the Expressions Editor.
However when I open up the Viseme tab I see none of the Viseme one sees in Iclone 7.9.
I want to make the FV shape look more real but there is no way of changing the shape that makes sense
The Viseme panel has a long list of sliders some for lips and others for eye and face.
The eye sliders make no sense being in the Viseme panel.

You can now edit the strength of each viseme right inside iClone, allowing you to reduce the strength of all BMP visemes with one setting. No need to bother with 3DXchange.

Check this section in the manual: https://manual.reallusion.com/iClone_7/ENU/Content/iClone_7/7.9/08-Animation/Facial-Animation/Three-Levels-of-Setting-Strength-for-Visemes.htm and look under Clip Level/Talking Style Editor.

3. The Talking Style Editor panel will show.
   

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Hi.
I already know that. what I was asking is for the ability to move the jaw back  or forward when making the FV sound. Most people who use Iclone do not look at other peoples mouths when they talk. The sliders only  determine how much of the morph shape the mouth take. Try making the FV sound and look at your face in a mirror. You will find that you do not always have the same mouth shape because different sounds require different mouth shapes. IClone have been trying for years to make their software make their animation have realistic looking lip sync animation but their have never  got it right. As soon as new feature is added to the software people that are new to animation leave very complementary comments like, "Amazing" even before they have tried that new feature.


 When they see the characters mouth move up and down trigged by text to speech or audio their 1st reaction is to say the video is "Amazing."
BUT it is not amazing. The mouth action is robotic.
 There a few people recently who have posted lip sync videos using Iclone 7.9 who lips sync animation looks very realistic. However there tons of other people that have posted  lip sync videos using Iclone 7.9 who I would not hire if I was making a movie  because there lips shapes do not look right
. Nearly all the videos have thumbs up and have comments like "amazing"

And before I get totally side tracked iClone 3DXchange 6 has a very comprehensible Expression Editor.  If you Have   iClone 3DXchange 6 go take a look at it's Expression Editor viseme tab; and then compart it to Clone 3DXchange 7 Editor. 
Please check it out so that I do not spend forever trying to explain myself

I have been using various implementations of iClone lip-syncing over the years, so I am not exactly new to this. I was just trying to help.

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I know you are trying to help. I followed the link you showed me.  I wanted emphasis  on sounds like FV and BMP only some times but I think the changes are global. That's no good. I was hoping to be able to make custom mouth shape for different pronunciations.
Thanks for the link: I will read up more on it when I have time and experiment and see if I can get positive results.
I did not want to embarrass you and ask to see the results of your lip syncing with Iclone. I tried with earlier versions of Iclone 6 and 7 and I soon gave up because the results where too mechanical.

If you are TRULY after good lip sync then the best way is to use a CC3+ character and enable the Arkkit extensions.  These are a brand new way of looking at sync that doesn't use visemes. Because, as you point out, people don't just speak in visemes.  They move their entire face and the Arkkit uses this approach (it's proprietary to Apple so if you are doing facial mocap you'll need an iPhone.  However, both Acculips as well as facial puppeting can use the Arkkit expressions).

It's game changing -- nothing else using visemes can compete.  It actually makes things which are better than Hollywood can do (in the right hands).  Check out all the RL videos on it and see.

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Alienware Aurora R12, Win 10, i9-119000KF, 3.5GHz CPU, 128GB RAM, RTX 3090 (24GB), Samsung 960 Pro 4TB M-2 SSD, TB+ Disk space
Mike "ex-genius" Kelley

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Hi

New user here.

I was wondering if the iClone team could review the Blender export. I seems like not all the materials get linked up fully and that some textures might be missing.  If the iClone team could just spend a bit of time to clean up that part of the workflow then I would be able to create a buttload of content.

If there's any tutorials that anyone know of that helps sort these issues out please post a link.  I've been googling but haven't found anything yet.

Btw the acculips + live capture is really great. Congrats to the team on making it so easy.

After updating to CC and iClone an hour ago, The IRAY render issue is back with the eyebrows, beards and hair. In IRAY Renders, there is a black patch showing up, please check the screenshot below. Original CC Project on right and IRAY render window on the left. This render issue is in iClone and Character Creator. Also the Prime Hair Pack hair coulours change dramatically when in IRAY.

Do we know how to fix this please @Peter(RL)