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Default and Paid sliders in new CC3.3 Update

Posted By Slayerazazel Last Year
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Slayerazazel
Slayerazazel
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Hi,

The new update has changed the way the sliders lay out in CC3. 

Previously to make sure i wasn't using any purchased sliders to create character to sell on the marketplace "without' using a paid slider so there would be no derivatives it was as simple as untick "show sub items"


Now doing that, nothing shows.
When opening up the tabs, we now have General, and multiple new folders. 




My assumption is that the General tab is the original default reallusion base morph sliders. Is this correct? 
Which ones are the sliders from the Essential Morphs and Skins pack?
Also if I was to purchase the skingen premium and possibly the 4in1 pack. How will those sliders be displayed? It is mentioned that the ultimate morph sliders will merge into the default structure as a core to native morphs. BUT.... that isn't the case. They aren't native morphs. And this looks to me to be a disaster for content creators. 



Can I get some clarification for this, please? If they do indeed merge with the default structure. I would very much like to say that this needs to be rectified and any purchased content needs to be displayed separately from the default content.

This, from initial inspection seems to be a big issue for developers.

https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/2f443580-7850-444b-b0cb-56c2.png
If anyone has any off-topic questions. Please message me directly to avoid spamming a thread with off-topic conversations.
I'm always happy to help. But do not want to hijack any threads.

Edited
Last Year by Slayerazazel
Slayerazazel
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Ok i have purchased the 4 in 1 skingen pack and the morphs do indeed just get merged into the same categories. There is no Essential Morphs Category anymore either.

I've uninstalled all paid packs and re installed them 1 by one to demonstrate.

No Installs Hand Finger (Default)
https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/02a36224-f527-48be-a5d8-479e.png

No installs - Hand General
https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/9adc8834-514e-4634-87d0-4f53.png

Essential Morphs - Hand Finger
https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/b793b02b-b87b-43b4-969d-64ce.png

Essential Morphs - Hand General
https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/78eb4905-f6d2-427b-8e35-2173.png

Ultimate Morphs - Hand Finger
https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/cc63749e-4d09-43bd-b648-0600.png

Ultimate Morphs - Hand General
https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/9774a4fc-f294-4b3b-8543-46ba.png

As you can see, all "PAID" packs merge into the "DEFAULT" slider folders. This is all well and good for the general user, who does not create content to sell in the marketplace. But for users who are both content creators and users, this is just a horrendous layout imo. Is there a way to be able to differentiate what packs the morphs belong to? There's no way that I'm going to be able to remember which morphs belong to which packs so i can avoid using certain ones. 

Example:
 I want to create a character and upload it to the store. With no derivative morph sliders. So basically I want to create the character with just the default sliders. I accidentally add a slider from essential morphs and bake it in, because now there is no way to tell what morphs are what (before there was, essential morphs where in their own folders). I then upload it and then find out that I have used a slider from a purchased pack. Since I've baked the slider in, I cannot undo it. I have to delete that project and start over from scratch. Because I did not want to use a slider from essential morphs. 

Obviously i can uninstall the packs through the smart gallery so they are no longer in CC3. But that defeats the purpose of me being a content creator "and" a user. So i am to uninstall and re install and uninstall and re install everytime i want to create something different. Sometimes i may want to create content using the ultimate morphs. We need the ability to determine what morphs are default and what morphs are paid. Merging them all into one was a huge mistake imo. 



Previously any default built-in sliders showed when not having the show sub items selected. And the paid items where the sub folders. This is just a mess now.

Is there currently a way to turn on something that will set them into default and paid sliders?
Is there something I'm missing? 
Can I please get some clarification on this matter from a Reallusionm Staff member?


https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/2f443580-7850-444b-b0cb-56c2.png
If anyone has any off-topic questions. Please message me directly to avoid spamming a thread with off-topic conversations.
I'm always happy to help. But do not want to hijack any threads.

miles.vonschriltz
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Yeah, as someone who is wanting to start creating content for the store, this is bad. There should be an option to split purchased content into separate folders or hide them. Or better yet, some kind of streamlined developer mode.
NinjaMouse
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Or, even better, why not eliminate the absurd "forced thousands of dollars of morph purchase" for potential customers, and open up the content store to actual sales?  At least for full body or head morphs.  No customer wants to see a cool morphed character for sale in the store, only to discover that he or she needs to buy thousands of dollars worth of morph packs, because the artist used Essential Morphs to smooth out a shoulder, and Headshot to nudge a nostril a milometer to the left.  This means that content artists must intentionally hamstring themselves, and limit themselves to the extremely sparse default morph set included with cc3, just to set up the base on which they will sculpt.  As a result, this massively devalues the additional morph packs for content creators, who--as this original poster describes--actually want to eliminate the very presence of these morph packs for fear of ruining their sculpts.  Think about that for a second!  It would be better for content creators to NEVER buy ANY morph packs, because they can't be used without massively increasing the cost of a single character morph to potential customers.  Content creators should be a prime beneficiary of these morph packs--to make creating a sculpting base easier--not regret purchasing them!  In the end, this forces unnecessary and time-intensive sculpting work just to get to a sculpting base that could have been attained by using morphs in several of the expensive morph packs.  As a content creator, why would I want to buy morph packs I can't use, and why would I not feel frustrated that I must then reproduce those very same morphs in an outside modeling program?  The end result is the same character, just more work for me. This policy is a huge turn-off for potential artists to join the RL team.

And as a potential customer of RL store assets, the same issue massively reduces potential sales.  I've desired to purchase several face/body morph assets, only to discover I would need to buy several more in order to use them.  The result?  No purchase.  On the other hand, I had no qualms about buying the Ogre and Orc body morphs that required only those stand-alone morph packs.  The result?  I bought stuff! 

I can only offer my own example, but I'm sure most other customers and potential content creators agree, this should change.  For me, before I learned about this terrible policy, I created what I think is a very cool "rat-person" full body and head morph.  Basically a were-rat.  I pushed CC3 to its limit to create a base to work with (later in Blender) using all sorts of morphs from morph packs I bought specifically to help make a solid starting point for my outside sculpting.  I had planned a whole series of morphable were-monsters for the RL store, not knowing that these characters would cost potential customers almost a thousand dollars to use, because they would have to buy all those extra packs.  When I learned the truth, I stopped making any characters.  I knew nobody would buy them.  It turns out, I can just use Makehuman--which I previously used prior to coming to CC3--and get the same results, since I have to do most of the work anyway.  And Makehuman is free, and the resulting characters are mine to own completely, and can be sold anywhere--not just on the RL store.  As a potential content creator, I feel dumb for spending so much money on CC3.

All of this is a shame, because CC3 has so much potential, and I actually love it as a character creator for my personal use.  But not as a content creator, for potential sales in the RL store.  Make body and head morphs independent of expensive morph pack requirements, and you'll see tons of new characters for your RL store!
Peter (RL)
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Thank you for the feedback. I have passed this to the CC team to review. Once I know more I'll update again.

                                                                

Peter
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www.reallusion.com


Slayerazazel
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I'd be happy with just a button to toggle on/off paid morph sliders. Like I was able to do before the new update. 

I do understand what ninja mouse is saying though. My first few morph characters/packs were created with the essential morphs and skins packs. I've since moved away from doing that and only using base morphs. So people don't need any derivative content (don't need to buy morph packs). It has become more evident that a fair majority of people just don't understand the derivative content model.

I'm happy enough to continue creating just using the base morphs and then using zbrush for additionally morphing/sculpting. But that's impossible to do when all the morph sliders are now merged without me uninstalling all my paid content.

https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/2f443580-7850-444b-b0cb-56c2.png
If anyone has any off-topic questions. Please message me directly to avoid spamming a thread with off-topic conversations.
I'm always happy to help. But do not want to hijack any threads.

Edited
Last Year by Slayerazazel
4u2ges
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I would also suggest content analyzer built into Content Uploader, so that meta data can be pulled from selected content and all derivatives listed before the upload.




Edited
Last Year by 4u2ges
Peter (RL)
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Thank you for the feedback regarding the new morph slider design. We do understand your concerns.

The Character Creator team is looking at this issue urgently and looking at ways to improve the situation for developers. All being well we hope to have the improvements ready by the 3.4 update later in the year. Smile




                                                                

Peter
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Edited
Last Year by Peter (RL)
Slayerazazel
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Thank you for the update Peter. 

https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/2f443580-7850-444b-b0cb-56c2.png
If anyone has any off-topic questions. Please message me directly to avoid spamming a thread with off-topic conversations.
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Slayerazazel
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Just another issue i have found also. I've uninstalled the Ultimate morphs and essential morphs with the smart gallery uninstaller. But the morphs are still present also. So this adds more frustration to it, as i need to uninstall and then go in and actually delete everything also...