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How do you justify the cost of this "Live Plugin" ?

Posted By davev 5 Years Ago
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AutoDidact
AutoDidact
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This Market is very competitive today.
The gaming industry is huge.
I understand why Reallusion wants a foot hold in that industry.
They can not survive only selling to hobbyists & tinkerers.
The problem with the live link program is the same problem with CC3. ,,,
AAA game companies will not Buy this plugin because they are by and large NOT using Iclone or CC3 /Daz figures etc. in production
they are using Maya& Motionbuilder.
OH....and "Indie game devs" dont buy $1000+ plugins and have many less expensive Character animation options than Iclone pipeline such as the Umotion pro system for unity and Many others.



RAG DOLL COLLISION ANIMATIONS FOR ICLONE 8 & 7
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animagic
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I assume RL has done some market analysis before they ventured into this. They seldom need our advice in that area...Tongue



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AutoDidact
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I have to wonder what analysis led them to beleive there was a demand in the core iclone>>realtime animation<<< community for a brute force,Arch vis path tracer like IRay??...or Indigo???
UE4 is truly awesome!!!..
 however I can not see why any serious Game dev team would pay Reallusion over $1000 USD (on top of the cost of  iclone pipeline),
when The Autodesk indie licensed products have become affordable , and their live link to UE4 is  FREE.
Additionally there is no comparison between the  industry tested 64 BIT  Autodesk motionbuilder and the 32 bit 3DXchange in terms of parsing HUGE mocap Data sets from multiple performers..
Hopefully  RL  does seek our opinions on the product line... if not then why have the pretense of  a "feedback tracker". 




RAG DOLL COLLISION ANIMATIONS FOR ICLONE 8 & 7
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ghost Origins
My latest Feature length film created with Iclone.
https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/adf9b210-df59-4cb6-aa1b-9de5.jpg


justaviking
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I think sometimes companies add features because they'll look great in the marketing material.  Whistling

Every NLE package includes "500 Transition Effects" when in reality you use "CUT" 99% of the time, and "Dissolve/Fade" 0.9% of the time, and WIPE 0.09% of the time (at least for movies), so that leaves about 0.01% of the time for the 497 other transition effects.  Other than making a video of your 3-year-old kid's birthday party, what do you need fancy transitions for?  A newbie who sees the box (or online ad) looks at it and goes, "Oooo, that sounds really cool,"  but mo
stly they detract fom the video, the novice just doesn't realize that yet.

Iray looks really cool on the product page.  But you will actually use it to create a movie how often?  (At least it does offer some value for stills.)

The game-related plug-ins are not targeted at the traditional iClone user base (in my opinion), but they are trying to grow their user base.  I'm fine with that, as long as they don't forget about us and ignore the needs of us who've owned iClone 5+ years.  The LOD stuff benefits us normal iClone users if we have background characters, so in that case we benefited from something we might not use directly.




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TonyDPrime
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I am very sorry to say this, but my tolerance is low these days given I can move in and out of Octane render with little issue.
Between glitchy performance and lack of updates, I am feeling the color Indigo here on this plugin.

Part of the problem is that there is some instability on the UE4 side with 4.22, so crashes happen often when using this plugin...and these I can't really blame RL for.
But then, there has been only 1 update by RL since release. 
Thus, any UE4-side issues are now compiled by the limited extent of RL's involvement, and it's left a temperamental workflow. 
The tech potential is great, but the implementation and support is unfortunately not as stable or solid.  
raxel_67
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Have you tried downgrading UE4 to a previously working version? i hope you can, if not i would try to get/beg for a refund. in my case that is the average of my monthly income and would be beyond pissed if it didn't work properly
Mystic360VR
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So now I am stuck. Epic releasing this megascans library that only works with UE 4.23 is something I can't ignore. But if Live Link wont be compatible with it anytime soon then I wasted a lot of money on a pipeline I can't use. We really, really need a Live Link update soon. 

vidi
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I had predicted
Now it is still in early stage, and already problems. 
I'm sure in one or two years it will discontinued


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liebe Grüße vidi




midix
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Yeah, historically RL target audience and marketing has been somewhat inconvenient - too expensive for hobbyists, too weak to appeal to AAA companies.

On one hand, it's slightly amusing to see a plugin costing more than a software that the plugin is "plugging" into.
On the other hand, it's their attempt at pushing higher. Maybe not for AAA but at least AA Smile

And the same goes for their planned attempts to release high definition texture support, subsurface scattering to get close to Unreal quality. 

If RL manage to integrate well with the existing "de facto standard" tools to create more convenient workflows than MotionBuilder does (at least for your typical humanoids) then they might even be able to convince some AAA companies to give it a try.

Who would want to model & texture multiple NPCs from scratch if you can grab an CC3 base mesh, tweak it a bit and get acceptable NPC character that looks unique and realistic (hopefully, with the next CC3 updates)  enough and indistinguishable from a character you would get when creating it from scratch?

On the other hand, solid AAA game studios already have their game-ready base meshes to use for NPCs (and also lead characters) in every game, so it would be very hard to sell RL products to them. Every game wants to be unique, and uniqueness is created by textures and assets. and CC3 cannot help much with these. Studios will have to create assets using industry-standard tools, and CC3/iClone can provide asset integration and animation only, which game studios already have in their current pipeline, anyway.

The best target audience seems to be startups that look for AAA quality (hopefully, the quality will come with next CC3 releases with HD textures and SSS) and convenient pipeline to kickstart their character creation. If RL manages to become a "de-facto" standard for starting 3D game studios, it already will mean some serious hooked customers and some income to use for development of other RL products. 

That's why I highly welcome their latest attempts at integrating with game engines and hugely improving that slightly plasticky dollish look of their current character textures. I keep fingers crossed for the upcoming releases with a hope they will make some serious noise in the industry.
Edited
5 Years Ago by midix



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