Profile Picture

Deconfusing and simplification of Reallusion products - just my fantasies

Posted By midix 5 Years Ago
You don't have permission to rate!

Deconfusing and simplification of Reallusion products - just my...

Author
Message
midix
midix
Posted 5 Years Ago
View Quick Profile
Distinguished Member

Distinguished Member (1.0K reputation)Distinguished Member (1.0K reputation)Distinguished Member (1.0K reputation)Distinguished Member (1.0K reputation)Distinguished Member (1.0K reputation)Distinguished Member (1.0K reputation)Distinguished Member (1.0K reputation)Distinguished Member (1.0K reputation)Distinguished Member (1.0K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: Last Year
Posts: 59, Visits: 362
I tried to collect the information about Reallusion 3D software, especially relevant to game developers. It was confusing, as many people noticed (that's why so many questions in the forums about Standard vs Pro vs Pipeline editions and for cases when you need 3dxchange to do some specific task).
 
So, to put all the bits and pieces together, I needed the following information:
(scroll down to the Package and Pricing table)
scroll down loooong way to the 3DXchange 7 vs. Previous Editions table and don't forget to expand all sections. Important thing here is to keep in mind that the features described in this table mean that these functions are not fully available (or not available at all) in iClone or CC3 Pipeline alone and you need 3DXchange!

But still even these tables are not enough to find out one important unintuitive fact: you can import DAZ and Poser characters into CC3 but you cannot import iClone characters into CC3! (Correct me if I'm wrong). I really hope this will change some day.

I would fancy the following:
- have only one core 3D product and that is iClone. Leave it as basic as it is with no import / export. Integrate basic Character Creator functionality as a free addon (ideally - inside iClone itself to avoid jumping back and forth).
- get rid of cc formats and their separate marketplace section. Extend iAvatar and other iItems to support all the functionality of currecnt ccItems. Thus no need to maintain two separate (and currently not 100% compatible) content ecosystems.
- split 3dxchange into two iClone addons - import and export. Importer will take all the importing capabilites (DAZ, Poser, obj, Transformer, whatnot). Exporter will integrate the Character Creator Pipeline with its abilities to export game-engine optimized models with the optimized character base, LODs and whatnot. It would also be great to have slightly improved rendering preview for export so I could better evaluate how my character will look like inside a game engine (subsurface scattering is a must). Maybe a limited and locked Iray version would do with fixed settings to match Unreal / Unity / CryEngine rendering as much as possible without buying full Iray plugin. 

With this ecosystem it all would become much simpler for the target audiences and, most probably, for Reallusion themselves:
- if you are an animator and movie creator, you can start with the basic iClone (+ Iray plugin, most probably)
- if you are a game content creator, you need the basic iClone + exporter. You can get along just fine without Importer as long as it is possible to export downloaded iClone marketplace content (with Export license, of course) to your game engine. And also Iray could be skipped if the exporter offers a preview that is tuned to be close to the target engine.
- importer would be required only for custom content creators and those game content creators who want to apply fully custom items to iClone characters and then export them.

Simple. No more questions "which version and plugins do I need" and "why I cannot edit iAvatar in CC and export to a game engine" etc. etc.

That's just my two cents. Maybe this wouldn't work well with all target audiences but it would fit the main ones much better, IMHO.
Anyway, I'm just fantasizing here. Thanks to Reallusion that we have such awesome products at all.
Edited
5 Years Ago by midix
animagic
animagic
Posted 5 Years Ago
View Quick Profile
Distinguished Member

Distinguished Member (32.5K reputation)Distinguished Member (32.5K reputation)Distinguished Member (32.5K reputation)Distinguished Member (32.5K reputation)Distinguished Member (32.5K reputation)Distinguished Member (32.5K reputation)Distinguished Member (32.5K reputation)Distinguished Member (32.5K reputation)Distinguished Member (32.5K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 11 hours ago
Posts: 15.7K, Visits: 30.5K
To correct one observation: CC characters ARE iClone characters of the latest generation. There would really not be much point in supporting the older generations iClone characters as they basically would have to be redesigned to make this possible.

CC characters can be exported to iClone as iAvatars without loss of functionality. I would be strongly opposed to getting rid of the CC format as it is miles ahead of the older iAvatar generations. It would not be a good idea to integrate the full CC Pipeline into iClone as it would become top heavy. I am an animator and I use CC extensively. It doesn't bother me to separate character design from animation.



https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/436b0ffd-1242-44d6-a876-d631.jpg

midix
midix
Posted 5 Years Ago
View Quick Profile
Distinguished Member

Distinguished Member (1.0K reputation)Distinguished Member (1.0K reputation)Distinguished Member (1.0K reputation)Distinguished Member (1.0K reputation)Distinguished Member (1.0K reputation)Distinguished Member (1.0K reputation)Distinguished Member (1.0K reputation)Distinguished Member (1.0K reputation)Distinguished Member (1.0K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: Last Year
Posts: 59, Visits: 362
Thanks for the correction. I guess, the naming with cc prefix is the source of confusion making one think that Character Creator is so standalone product that its content needs very special treatment and separate file format. Having just a new version of iStuff would make it simpler for the ecosystem as such.

Anyway, it should be possible to export iAvatar characters through CC3 Pipeline, otherwise game content developers are locked out of the large iClone content marketplace.
Rampa
Rampa
Posted 5 Years Ago
View Quick Profile
Distinguished Member

Distinguished Member (35.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (35.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (35.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (35.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (35.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (35.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (35.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (35.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (35.8K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 9 hours ago
Posts: 8.1K, Visits: 60.6K
https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/edeb6bf0-b281-45ce-9547-c7cb.jpg
midix
midix
Posted 5 Years Ago
View Quick Profile
Distinguished Member

Distinguished Member (1.0K reputation)Distinguished Member (1.0K reputation)Distinguished Member (1.0K reputation)Distinguished Member (1.0K reputation)Distinguished Member (1.0K reputation)Distinguished Member (1.0K reputation)Distinguished Member (1.0K reputation)Distinguished Member (1.0K reputation)Distinguished Member (1.0K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: Last Year
Posts: 59, Visits: 362
@Rampa - yes, we can export characters as iAvatars from CC3.

But imagine that you are a game developer who found a nice looking iAvatar on Reallusion marketplace and it has Export license. Then you want to run it through CC3 to convert to the optimized game character base with optimized their LOD and materials. So you open an iAvatar with Character Creator, it starts loading... but then it shows a message box telling that iAvatars are not supported. And somehow I didn't find information about this limitation anywhere in the product information. Maybe I'm wrong and there is some other kind of pipeline possible to convert iAvatar to the new CC format and then to the game character and then export? Anyway, currently both CC pipeline and 3dxchange seem to be doing some things of exporting and importing but you can't get everything from just one of them, so you might end up buying the entire suite.
Rampa
Rampa
Posted 5 Years Ago
View Quick Profile
Distinguished Member

Distinguished Member (35.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (35.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (35.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (35.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (35.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (35.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (35.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (35.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (35.8K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 9 hours ago
Posts: 8.1K, Visits: 60.6K
There have been multiple generations of iClone iAvatars. CC is th most recent, and best suited for games. The G6 were beta CC characters, and anything G5 and earlier was made up of multiple meshes. The CC body mesh is a single mesh. CC 1-3 are all CC compatible.
The-any-Key
The-any-Key
Posted 5 Years Ago
View Quick Profile
Distinguished Member

Distinguished Member (2.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (2.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (2.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (2.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (2.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (2.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (2.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (2.8K reputation)Distinguished Member (2.8K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 3 Weeks Ago
Posts: 356, Visits: 1.9K
I also do game development with CC3, iClone7, iRay and 3DXchange. So you will need these 3 and CC3 and 3DXchange as pipeline versions. When I browse the marketplace, I only buy characters that say it is compatible with CC3 (not anything older). So I don't buy any character that is in the iClone7 section, as they may be in a format that CC3 don't support (I want to be able to use CC3 and customise them). When I am looking for props, I however buy stuff from the iClone section that got export license. I use iRay for generating posters for the game.



iClone 7, 3DXchange 7 Pipeline, CC3 Pipeline, CT8 Pipeline, Iray, Live Face, iPhone Xr, Win 10, i9 9900K ~5GHz, Nvidia RTX 2080 8GB, 16GB Ram, M.2 SSD
Edited
5 Years Ago by The-any-Key
midix
midix
Posted 5 Years Ago
View Quick Profile
Distinguished Member

Distinguished Member (1.0K reputation)Distinguished Member (1.0K reputation)Distinguished Member (1.0K reputation)Distinguished Member (1.0K reputation)Distinguished Member (1.0K reputation)Distinguished Member (1.0K reputation)Distinguished Member (1.0K reputation)Distinguished Member (1.0K reputation)Distinguished Member (1.0K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: Last Year
Posts: 59, Visits: 362
@The-any-Key  Yes, I guess that's our best option. Let's hope that with time the CC compatible content library will grow at least as large as current iClone content library.

@Rampa  It would be nicer if Reallusion would implement the new format transparently for users without the need for the user to think which format when to use. Only when trying to combine items from both new and old formats, it should show a warning that items are not compatible and errors might occur. Otherwise it could just convert silently without users noticing, and thus it wouldn't even need two separate iClone / CC marketplaces - just a single marketplace with generation number for each item, similarly as it is in DAZ. Otherwise it gets messy. Imagine what would happen if Apple AppStore or Google Play Market suddenly decided that with their next OS version they will launch a new marketplace section that is compatible only with their new OS - it would be confusing and expensive to maintain for users, content developers and the company themselves.

It's a bit counterintuitive that CC does not support older (iClone) content with some kind of upgrade conversion. Usually when you upgrade some software to a new major version it tries to support older file formats directly or through some user friendly automatic conversion process.
GrannyJ
GrannyJ
Posted 5 Years Ago
View Quick Profile
Distinguished Member

Distinguished Member (10.6K reputation)Distinguished Member (10.6K reputation)Distinguished Member (10.6K reputation)Distinguished Member (10.6K reputation)Distinguished Member (10.6K reputation)Distinguished Member (10.6K reputation)Distinguished Member (10.6K reputation)Distinguished Member (10.6K reputation)Distinguished Member (10.6K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 3 Years Ago
Posts: 502, Visits: 1.5K
The-any-Key (4/5/2019)
I also do game development with CC3, iClone7, iRay and 3DXchange. So you will need these 3 and CC3 and 3DXchange as pipeline versions. When I browse the marketplace, I only buy characters that say it is compatible with CC3 (not anything older). So I don't buy any character that is in the iClone7 section, as they may be in a format that CC3 don't support (I want to be able to use CC3 and customise them). When I am looking for props, I however buy stuff from the iClone section that got export license. I use iRay for generating posters for the game.


Any character in any section (including iClone section) that is a CC Character (editable in CC3) will have this verbiage in the pack item list:
https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/612aaca4-5c3f-4c03-a28c-4d96.jpg
 & will have this image in the description section:
 https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/26395cc3-7d0c-4924-a46c-25e0.png
A lot of developers only upload their CC Characters to the iClone section of the Marketplace, so only looking in the CC section limits the selection available to you.



iClone Certified Content Developer and Author of the Pinky Frink® Adventure Series & the Pinky Frink® Learning Books
site: Granny J's 3D Attic SKYPE = grannyjsplace email: grannyj@grannyjs3dattic.com
MY RIG: GPU: Dual GeForce GTX 970M | CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM)i7-5930K @3.50GHz| 32.00 GB RAM | OS: Win 7 Pro SP1 | DX11








GrannyJ
GrannyJ
Posted 5 Years Ago
View Quick Profile
Distinguished Member

Distinguished Member (10.6K reputation)Distinguished Member (10.6K reputation)Distinguished Member (10.6K reputation)Distinguished Member (10.6K reputation)Distinguished Member (10.6K reputation)Distinguished Member (10.6K reputation)Distinguished Member (10.6K reputation)Distinguished Member (10.6K reputation)Distinguished Member (10.6K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 3 Years Ago
Posts: 502, Visits: 1.5K
midix (4/5/2019)

It's a bit counterintuitive that CC does not support older (iClone) content with some kind of upgrade conversion. Usually when you upgrade some software to a new major version it tries to support older file formats directly or through some user friendly automatic conversion process.


The CC Character is not an "upgraded" version of the old iAvatars - not even close. The rigging is different, the mesh is different, the UV mapping is different. You can't convert an orange into a banana - no matter how hard you try. Yes, companies that are just upgrading their software will often make previous version files accessible.  CC is not an upgrade, rewrite or rework of the old iClone iAvatar system- it is a new beast entirely.

My problem with CC is that all developers must use the RL bases 



iClone Certified Content Developer and Author of the Pinky Frink® Adventure Series & the Pinky Frink® Learning Books
site: Granny J's 3D Attic SKYPE = grannyjsplace email: grannyj@grannyjs3dattic.com
MY RIG: GPU: Dual GeForce GTX 970M | CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM)i7-5930K @3.50GHz| 32.00 GB RAM | OS: Win 7 Pro SP1 | DX11











Reading This Topic