Hi,
First of all, thanks for the demo version; it really helps to see if this application is useful for my purposes or not.
Context: I make games, I am no 3d artist and I don't want to be one; I need an application that allow me to use my DAZ content, or like Fuse, allow me to create characters that are unique, and can fit different clothes/props on. I use mainly Unity3d as engine.

Problem: CC3 looks great; although it does nothing of what I need. Your ads show it being the ultimate tool for character creation, which integrate into a game development pipeline, which is borderline incorrect.I did try to export your base character to Unity and what I get is nowhere near usable. Maps missing, no morphs, limited mods available, and HUGE poly count for the main figure; because for some reasons, you have a feature to reduce items and props on the figure but not the figure itself, unless you use the LOD feature when exporting, which does merge materials and meshes, making impossible to use it for character that has different materials.

I get that the Unity pipeline is not the main point of CC3; you mostly made this to leverage your ecosystem, and import DAZ content (which BTW in some cases does not work either, like for Sakura characters among others); and that gaming pipeline is only one of the features; but sadly for me, if I am about to give you 200 hard earned dollars, I need to have something that makes my life easier, not something that force me to spend time on top of what I already spend. DAZ is free and I have thousands of dollars in assets with them, so to convert them in CC3 format; is feasible but if I can't use them in Unity; then there is no point in use CC3.

Among the export problems in Unity; I would like to point out that the design decision to make the LOD without the capability to define which parts should merge materials, is really ill-fated; for any game pipeline purposes. The LOD feature is brilliant; and all that you need to do is to not merge things like hair or clothes; so they can be set as transparent materials, if they are different meshes. And when using the poly reduction feature, you should allow the main figure to be reduced too; so you leave full control to users about how to set up details.
Another big issue for me is the lack of morphs and other control points that I can use programmatically for facial or body animations. Tried to import a DAZ figure and the work to get blendshapes usable was not even worth to be honest; compared to the time spent exporting direclty from DAZ studio. So would be really useful to have an easy way to export and use blendshapes in Unity.

Last but not least, performances are quite disappointing: I have a latest gaming computer with a top of the line i7 current gen and a 1070 with 8 GB of VRAM; so not exactly an entry machine; and I can use many applications without problems, but your application takes forever even to apply a simple underwear or glove accessory.

I want to get CC3, but you are currently doing nothing to support Unity3d users, beyond the bare basics (and even the straight export of your figures to Unity3d does not work, not sure which version were you using for your promo video, or how much postwork was done there). Again, your target is iClone users I guess; and that is OK; but then I would suggest to change your promo video, because it makes me think that I can use CC3 with Unity and make characters with little to no effort; compared to export from DAZ Studio.

I am still here; still willing to buy the app; but I have 15 days left on my trial; and your last update was a month ago or so; which makes me think that these issues won't be fixed by the time my trial expire. And no, I won't buy the app and hope that it will do what I need...either it does it or I will look elsewhere.$200 are a lot of money for indie developers.

A lot of the new features for CC3 are aimed at game development, not necessarily iClone, which was a complaint from the other side.

For example, reduced poly-count characters were initially not available for iClone (where they could be used for crowds), so the iClone users were disappointed, but that is going to change.

I am not a game developer, but I believe your concerns are real. Extending the user base is important for current users as well, so I hope a solution is found. Also, feature development and beta testing should include more input from game developers.

I have been using RL products for a long time and there is hardly ever ill will, but there is sometimes a certain clumsiness and also miscommunication between sales and development. I'm used to it (grudgingly at times), but as a prospect user you are in need of clarity.

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Thank you for the feedback lollosone. We appreciate you taking the time to share your views.

We are currently producing some detailed CC3 to Unity tutorials which should explain the pipeline better and may alleviate some of your concerns. We hope to have these ready by the end of November.

In the meantime I will pass on your feedback to the Character Creator team so they can review the points you have raised.


                                                                

Peter
Forum Administrator

www.reallusion.com

Hi Peter,
Thanks for the reply; and tutorials are always welcome.

Now, I would like to point out that these issues are not related to not know how to use your app (and by any means I would not say that I know how to use it, considering that I did spend like few hours in it); but are fundamental problems with both the output of the export function and the LOD functionalities.
There is not a way around the fact that you can't export morphs easily in Unity; nor that you can't reduce the poly count of the main figure; nor that the maps are just not exported at all (it is not a matter of not being compatible with Unity; they are not there at all).
I hope that the CC team will be planning updates to fix these issues; because to me it sound like the whole pipeline was not planned with someone that use Unity in mind at all, but made as afterthought.

And in no way I expect that someone with no experience making 3d games, has to nail the pipeline; in the same way as if you ask me to make a 3d app for a modeler/artist; I will most likely mess it up because I am not one; but the expectation was that someone would at least give CC3 to 3d engine users that create games, and have them give you feedback. What is there is useful but nowhere near as useful if it was thought with a bit more of knowledge about the problems and issues that a developer dealing with 3d content in a realtime engine, has to deal with.
I hope this application will eventually change; but as is now; I am sad to say that it would not be something that I would buy; it should be the app that should work around the issues; and solve them; not the user that has to be creative in figure out how to use an app.

Feel free to put me in touch with any of the CC team developer; I will be more than happy to be more detailed about the issues when dealing with Unity. Cheers!

I totally agree!  The CC3 team needs to address all these issues regarding the CC3 to Unity pipeline.  If they don't they are cutting off a huge percentage of potential Unity users as there are millions of us out there.  They also need to change their promo videos if they have no docs or tutorials on how to achieve those results.  CC3 characters also need phoneme blendshapes because not all Unity developers are going to want to buy iClone just for facial animation and lip sync.  Again, the CC3 promo page makes it appear as tough "Talking Characters" is a feature of CC3... and it is not.  It's a feature of iClone and an iPhone X app.  That fact should be made more obvious on the promo page and not buried in the fine print.

I agree that they should make things more clear, but at the same time; this is what marketing does: attract potential buyers.

At least they did put the info buried somewhere; instead of playing dirty and put in features that does not apply to CC3; in a promo video without any sort of clarification. Then it is up to the customer to figure things out.

I am glad that they did put out a demo; because I was about to buy CC3 without even try it, after looking at their videos; and I am glad I didn't. If it was 50 bucks I would just buy it, but at 200; it is way to expensive to be considered a side app for my workflow.

Just as comparison; software like Topogun or 3dcoat cost the same price of CC3, but is actually solving a problem for me; so I am totally fine with the purchase. I just hope the CC team will actually realize that Unity users are waiting for a character creator tool since ages; and unless they want to get late to the party, and see Unity make their own internal implementation of character creation; I would expect them to pick up the pace and deliver an update aimed at Unity users.
If not, that's OK; they are just missing a great chance to increase revenues; and get up on the Unite stage maybe, because some cool game did use their tech and decided to give them credit. I am just disappointed at seeing potential in an app; try it out, thinking that it will solve my problems, and end up with disappointment; knowing that any change that could be useful to me, is either far fetched for the near future; or won't happen at all.

                                                                

Peter
Forum Administrator

www.reallusion.com