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No real animations... only morphs? Please clarify.

Posted By Makumba666 6 Years Ago
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Makumba666
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Hi all,
I am very puzzled and very disappointed honestly. I will explain what is the matter. When you use mocap every bone is associated with some area/marker/sensor. When you move your body\face - it moves marker/sensor -> moves bone and hence moves the mesh. But with Faceware it is strange (at least) - Why in the world I need to import morphs trough 3DXchange expression editor and have some visemes\expressions\etc. if it is bone animation system? So, if I am correct this plug-in does not animate bones - it just uses preexisted morphs to deform face and make it look similar to captured face. Hence 3 questions arise:
1. So it will never be able to recreate exact expression correct? It only will able recreate things that already exist as morphs.
2. It is actually not realtime face mocap... not mocap at all - it is only some kind morphs player. Correct?
3. Why in the woirld then I need these plugin if it can not add anything new and only can use things I already have - morphs?
Is there any way to capture face data without morphs? Is not 1200 too much for morph player?
Edited
6 Years Ago by Makumba666
Kelleytoons
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I'm afraid you don't understand motion capture, whether it's face or body.

All mocap does is map markers onto areas that are captured, and then the software remaps those markers to make the appropriate movement.  It can do movement in a whole lot of different ways -- and the Faceware software uses a few of them, including both bones (for neck and eyes) as well as morphs.  But combining the morphs to create the expression that matches those markers isn't any different than moving bones to match those markers.  You can do it a number of different ways but the bottom line is that as long as the markers match up to the facial expression who cares how you get there?

You say "it can't add anything new" -- how does using bones add anything new?  The bones are already there, and moving them into positions you can do yourself isn't doing anything "new".  The same is true of blending morphs -- you can indeed do this yourself, and good luck to you.  Just like you don't need mocap for the body, you do not need mocap for the face, but it's just a helluva lot easier to have and use.



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Mike "ex-genius" Kelley
Edited
6 Years Ago by Kelleytoons
Makumba666
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You do not see my main point - when mocap uses bones I can use any deformation, repositioning bones in any way. When it uses morphs it only can mimic those morphs. For example if I want an expression of smile with mouth closed right side and opened widely left side I will never be able to get this expression with morphs (and hence with faceware) - or I must edit them. If it was bones- they would allow me to have such expression as some points would be associated with some bones, not with some predefined shapes.
I think body mocap is must have and I probably will buy one - using perception neuron... as for facial mocap... if damned thin only uses morphs I simply do not see any reason to spend money on it as here is text- to-speech and facial puppet, which are not hard to use at all and good enough for standard expressions. 

P.S. And one very important advantage - when it just uses bones you do not need to prepare morphs, damned visemes etc.etc.
Edited
6 Years Ago by Makumba666
Kelleytoons
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You don't need to prepare anything -- Faceware is designed to work with iClone and any character that can work there (well, any character advanced enough to have facial features worth deforming) works without preparation.

And you still miss the the point -- you COULD get your expression you wanted (mouth closed on one side only) because the morphs it uses are comprehensive enough to cover any expression your face can do (well, any expression the markers will cover -- every system uses markers and they can only cover so much).

But do what you want -- it's totally up to you (I'd rather be without my body mocap system -- since I can always move bones -- than without Faceware).



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@Makumba666

That might surprise you but the goal of any facial mocap system is not to recreate exact expression of the actor. That would be too restrictive. Imagine instead of Gollum we would see Andy Serkis ? Or Andy Serkis in place of Caesar in "Planet of the Apes" ? That's what you would get if the facial mocap system would recreate exact expression.

A facial mocap system is meant to "map" the expressions of the actor to a character expressions which may have completely different facial muscles structure or arrangement for the same conceptual expression.

Faceware is a markerless realtime facial mocap system, it analyses in realtime the configuration of the actor face and associate certain actor expressions to certain expression codes (in iClone). If you use the Faceware Analyzer and Faceware Retargeter (the Faceware standalone applications) then you control everything, in fact you "train" the application to encode the expressions depending on the actor expressions. You are free to do this on a global expression basis or even up to single face muscle basis if you want to follow FACS for instance (the Facial Action Coding System) like Weta with there facial animation system (morph based btw).

In iClone, with the special Faceware version, this has been pre-coded for you, you just have to calibrate the actor and normally a subset of the actor expressions will be properly detected, unfortunately not to the FACS precision. So you can't change the type nor the number of expressions that are detected and encoded but you can change how each of those expressions will look on your characters by creating custom morphs, either by sculpting those directly in ZBrush or whatever, or, if you want, by creating a bones based facial rig and capture or bake the mesh after having set each bone to your liking. So ultimately you can use bones or morphs, but the final data used is a collection of morphs for efficiency reasons (a single sculpted morph may represent dozens of displaced muscles).

Whether you use the Faceware iClone plugin or the full Faceware standalone applications, one thing to understand is that there is no direct relation from a marker to a bone nor morph because Faceware is markerless, Faceware internally creates tracking points that may not be in the same place every time and may depend on each actor face so they cannot act as "identified" trackers such as "head", "right foot" or "left hand".

Mocap does not always mean using markers. It is convenient for body mocap albeit other systems exist as well, but it has been almost "proven" to be much less efficient for facial mocap, hence the use of "markerless" systems nowadays, Faceware being the leader, afaik.


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Edited
6 Years Ago by grabiller
Makumba666
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@grabiller
Thanks for clarification. I see your points. Indeed face and body mocap differ from facial mocap.



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