Author
|
Message
|
TonyDPrime
|
TonyDPrime
Posted 7 Years Ago
|
Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 2 days ago
Posts: 3.4K,
Visits: 12.4K
|
So, I love using PBR. And I love the lighting elements. In one scene all the sudden I became curious what Indigo would look like, and I was like, "Eh...What the hay...just for old times sake..." And I rendered it expecting a mess... Instead I was like - Holy Crap...the same thing looks so much different... iClone 7 PBR Indigo You know, a lot of times Indigo will just F it up, and you have to mod settings to get things right. And, the calibration of the IBL is still an issue (I went back into iClone to match what Indigo gave me.) But in this case I was like, "F%$#!...it almost looks like a damn real person!"... WTF, PBR!!!.....I gotta get my PBR-act together....
|
|
|
Jfrog
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Last Active: Yesterday
Posts: 696,
Visits: 4.7K
|
Are you saying that the first and third pictures are both rendered in Iclone 7? I am surprise to see how the lighting & shadows combo can change the shape of a face like that.
Ryzen R9 5950x, RTX 3090, 128Gb Ram ,2 x 2 TB Samsung 980 Pro M.2 SSD
Horror Stories in VR Immersive Sound VR Immersive Sound VR on Oculus TV
|
|
|
TonyDPrime
|
TonyDPrime
Posted 7 Years Ago
|
Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 2 days ago
Posts: 3.4K,
Visits: 12.4K
|
3rd is Indigo also, it was another take I saved with a slight zoom and smile added off the original. The 3rd image's shape is just a smile difference (via facekey) from the 2nd image you see. OMG...as good as PBR is, I would love if I could replicate those shadows....sigh...
|
|
|
Jfrog
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Last Active: Yesterday
Posts: 696,
Visits: 4.7K
|
oh I see... Yes, the indigo version does look better. The specular / brightness in the Iclone render is also a bit much. Thank you for sharing this!
Ryzen R9 5950x, RTX 3090, 128Gb Ram ,2 x 2 TB Samsung 980 Pro M.2 SSD
Horror Stories in VR Immersive Sound VR Immersive Sound VR on Oculus TV
Edited
7 Years Ago by
Jfrog
|
|
|
animagic
|
animagic
Posted 7 Years Ago
|
Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 9 hours ago
Posts: 15.6K,
Visits: 30.3K
|
To be fair, you would have to use lighting similar to what Indigo does for comparison (emissive surfaces and shadow casters instead of direct lights). Shadows that appear in the iClone render don't appear in Indigo, so the lighting is different. Lighting obviously has a big influence in a render result. Also, things like Specularity can easily be toned down. I find the result pretty close otherwise. But Indigo is nice for stills.
|
|
|
TonyDPrime
|
TonyDPrime
Posted 7 Years Ago
|
Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 2 days ago
Posts: 3.4K,
Visits: 12.4K
|
animagic (10/17/2017) To be fair, you would have to use lighting similar to what Indigo does for comparison (emissive surfaces and shadow casters instead of direct lights). Shadows that appear in the iClone render don't appear in Indigo, so the lighting is different. Lighting obviously has a big influence in a render result. Also, things like Specularity can easily be toned down.
I find the result pretty close otherwise. But Indigo is nice for stills.Emissive surfaces - you mean like a plane emitting light onto the face vs an overall key/rim light? Would that work any different, I thought it would just affect geographic light coverage, not quality of coverage (ie - shadows would be different) And Shadow Caster - is this possible? how do I work that onto the face?! Please tell me! PLEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAASE!!!!!!!! PLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!But in all seriousness, I don't know and want to learn what you mean. Pretty please, with sprinkles on top. Thank you.
|
|
|
animagic
|
animagic
Posted 7 Years Ago
|
Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 9 hours ago
Posts: 15.6K,
Visits: 30.3K
|
Lighting is a topic that requires more than the few sentences I have time for right now... If you look under the Create Light options, you see a couple of emissive surfaces available, but basically any prop can be made emissive. There is also a Create Shadow Caster option. I will gave you a recent example of how I have used this: You see a nightlight on the right that is an emissive prop. The brightness of the object itself is controlled by the Self Illumination and Glow settings. I only use a little glow as it tends to gave a kind of haziness to the object and it also tends to overpower HDR. The amount of light that is emitted is controlled by the Glow/Self Illumination Scale under GI Settings. Obviously, GI must be turned on and the GI Anchor must be in the vicinity. It turned out that the light of the nightlight didn't quite reach the character and I didn't want to increase its illumination, so I added an emissive surface. In the past I would have used a point light, but those are omni-directional, and in this case I only wanted to light the face and the upper body. You have a lot of control because you can change size, angle, and position to get it just right. Emissive surface don't give shadows, so that's why we have shadow casters. You will see a faint shadow on the wall. Besides more light options, we also have more control over shadows by using the Darkness setting. It's a very powerful system, and it is worth your while to learn it. There is documentation; both Warlord and Stuckon3D have published tutorials. Think of your scene as recreating a film set: there are all kinds of deflectors to get the lighting just right.
|
|
|
TonyDPrime
|
TonyDPrime
Posted 7 Years Ago
|
Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 2 days ago
Posts: 3.4K,
Visits: 12.4K
|
I want to thank you guys so much for the comments. Jfrog - it may seem obvious that the spec was too high, and the shadowing was different, but I wasn't even thinking of it. Then when you mentioned it I was like, "My goodness...he's right!...Those specifically do look different..." Sometimes it's right under your nose and you don't see it, and then someone else says, "Oh you're looking for that? Yeah, it's right under your nose..." Animagic - Thank you so much for taking the time to detail your thoughts into a workflow. I have to play with this definitely,. Anything with lighting and shadows I am so interested in, so this was great. I very much value your input!!!! The excellence shows in your work. Thank You!!! In the meantime, here is another one...this time I took your thoughts on lighting, lights, and shadows... getting closer.... iClone 7 PBR - Compare 2 Indigo - Compare 2
|
|
|
paulg625
|
paulg625
Posted 7 Years Ago
|
Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 2 Years Ago
Posts: 388,
Visits: 1.4K
|
Tony, I went back in forth with the two pictures and the Indigo has more subtle shadows around the eyes and along the hair line. I wonder if in PBR Iclone if the AO would help here? Maybe Animagic can give thought on this. Because when looking back and forth the eyes are one of the greatest difference. (besides a softness to the Indigo image) the PBR image the eyes seem to bug out by comparison. The AO should help with those types of shadows. Right?
|
|
|
TonyDPrime
|
TonyDPrime
Posted 7 Years Ago
|
Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 2 days ago
Posts: 3.4K,
Visits: 12.4K
|
paulg625 (10/18/2017) Tony, I went back in forth with the two pictures and the Indigo has more subtle shadows around the eyes and along the hair line. I wonder if in PBR Iclone if the AO would help here? Maybe Animagic can give thought on this. Because when looking back and forth the eyes are one of the greatest difference. (besides a softness to the Indigo image) the PBR image the eyes seem to bug out by comparison. The AO should help with those types of shadows. Right?Yes, I agree with what you are saying 100%. I noticed this as well, but find that the AO settings only darken/lighten the eye shadowing along with the whole face . So it's more like adjusting settings makes the darkness different, as opposed to recreating the subtle softness in targeted areas. In a nutshell, I tried! So far this is the closest I could replicate along the available AO extremes. Then the hairline, I almost feel like that one is a result of there being another light source than what I have, but not sure where/what that source is. But, the AO setting did not create this hair shadow at all, at least with the lighting angle I have it at. But in general, I know exactly what you mean. Perhaps Indigo has some light above or behind the head or something, or maybe it has the power to add AO to hairlines somehow...
Edited
7 Years Ago by
TonyDPrime
|
|
|