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Rules about hiring freelancers with iClone.

Posted By naomi.kendall 7 Years Ago
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naomi.kendall
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TheOldBuffer (10/12/2017)
I'd imagine it's the fact you used a trial version to create your project and don't intend to purchase thats made RL a bit narked. Regarding the rendering of your project, it's not an impossible ask but a lot is dependent on what props and avatars you are using. If you have purchased anything from reallusion the person rendering your project has to have the same items or they will have to be bought again. Other than that there shouldn't be any problems.

Thankyou, this was very helpful to me. I'm glad I had you around to explain it to me. Smile
naomi.kendall
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justaviking (10/12/2017)
@Naomi,

You may recognize me as one of the people who commented in your earlier thread.
I am a bit surprised (but not shocked) that the thread was removed.

Yes, is it okay for people do use iClone "for hire."  But that is different from what you were asking yesterday.
If the work is done entirely on licensed (paid-for) iClone installations, that is different from doing most of the work on a trial (free) version.

I was trying to think of an analogy.  This isn't great, but it'll suffice:
- You need to drill a hole in your wall at home, but you don't own a drill.
- It seems rather expensive to buy a drill for only one hole.
- So you buy a drill, take it home, drill the hole, and the next day to return the drill to the store to get your money back.
- In that case, you're abusing the store's refund policy.
- However, if your neighbor bought the same drill from the same store, you could hire him to drill the hole for you.

I sincerely wish you the best of luck.


Hello JustAViking. Thankyou for replying. Smile
Unfortunetly I actually didnt get to read your post yesterday. I uploaded the question, stayed up another 20minutes and fell asleep (whoops), it was 2am here, perhaps I should have already been asleep. I would have loved to have read the replies. By the time I woke up and checked back on the thread it was already gone. Did you (or anyone else) say anything different, not on this thread that I should have read?
BTW I loved your analogy about the drill. I totally agree that returning the drill would be wrong. I wanted to ask my neighbour to give him $20 to borrow his $400 drill for ten minutes to drill my wall, rather than buy the drill myself, or pay him to do it. 
I truely didnt know I was doing anything wrong, and it wasnt my intention to. Thankyou for your kind words and finding a good way of explaining it to me Smile

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Kelleytoons (10/12/2017)
Yeah, I think it goes deeper than that, as I said on that original thread.  You used the software to create a project and now you want to pay for "renting" a render license,  But RL doesn't sell such a license, and asking others to circumnavigate that is wrongheaded and most likely illegal.  Plus, as I said, anyone here would be a fool to do five projects for you and not charge what iClone itself sells for (because you might think it's "easy money" but it's not -- every single thing I've ever done in animation always has consequences and difficulties you can't imagine.  I would charge you at least a couple of hundred to do it).

But the bigger question is this: if you created all these projects (and five is a lot) and you recognize the value of having them rendered, why NOT pay the few hundred dollars for a legit copy of iClone?  You will at the very least use it again -- no one can say "well, this FIVE is all I need".  And you will at least pay $100 or more to someone else to do it for you -- why cheap out and get someone in trouble (and trouble they will get into) when you can just solve it all yourself?I assume you will be making money off of these (which is why you are willing to pay in the first place to render them) -- don't cheap out and you will be FAR better off.


Hello Kelleytoons. I'm so sorry I didnt get to read your original thread - did you say anything else originally not said here? It was taken down before I got to read it. I truly didn't mean to do anything wrong - and I'm sorry if I got under your skin by asking not once, but twice. (ugh).  I'm very new to these programs and i'm working on a lot of assumptions, that could be wrong. I know of some phone apps that allow you to do things such as modify a photo which you can then upload to social media, and you have the choice of either having a logo, or paying to have an individual photos without, usually at an inflated price. I'm not sure if these still exist, but it seemed like a good concept. I hope one day Reallusion allows for one off purchases as such. Oh gosh, no, I dont want to get anyone in trouble - I didn't think it could - my bad.
No, not making any money, I just thought it would look cool. I wanted to present a doll I made to youtube, so the project I made is literally a character talking to the camera, reading the introduction clip with a blank background - nothing fancy whatsoever. One of the videos is 12 seconds long - all 5 together are under 2 minutes. I'm sure there's a way to put them all into the one clip - but then I'd just have to cut the clip back up to add the photos of my doll. I didn't realise it would cost so much money - its just a silly little project just for me to introduce my doll - wow, do i feel silly, I was sooo far off. 
Did you read JustAVikings analogy of the drill? When I said I wanted to pay, I meant $20 to borrow the drill, and not just ask my neighbour and offer nothing in return. I realise now, from everything you said how far off this was. Thankyou for your time and effort in writing to me Smile Best wishes Kelleytoons - you have educated well today.

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naomi.kendall (10/12/2017)
I truely didnt know I was doing anything wrong, and it wasnt my intention to. Thankyou for your kind words...


I will take you at your word.

The short version of what I wrote yesterday is that the purpose of a trial license is to evaluate the software, not to make a finished product.  Since you want a final render, you are apparently satisfied with the results (otherwise you wouldn't want it rendered).  Thus you should pay for the software.

As before, best wishes and good luck.





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naomi.kendall
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Hello Ani, is that what you prefer to be called? - Wow, I'm blown away - I love your work on youtube - not to mention your other work aswell - I've been bouncing around the web checking out all your different mediums of artistry Smile I feel like I've just uncovered a hidden gem, and I'm so excited to get started reading one of your books for the first time. Also, congrats on winning the Norma K Hemming Award. Smile Your official video for diamond eyes gave me shivers up my spine. Keep up the great work!
Kevin.S
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Here is Reallusions policies about the use of software pictures and animations BigGrin


Policies


Freelance Artist Kevin.S



https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/57cedd8e-58c4-42ce-b2f4-9646.png https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/5a59e070-66a0-4914-b0a5-b2dc.png 

Email: animatemyart@gmail.com - Web Site:  www.animatemyart.com
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Kelleytoons
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There's a lot there, but I think this part is the relevent one:

You may not sell, sub-license, loan, give, or transfer any part of the CrazyTalk,CrazyTalk Animator, iClone, and/or 3DXchange or a copy thereof to another personor company.

In essence, by asking others to render your projects, you are asking them to "loan" you the program (it could also be construed as a sub-license).  Now, if you wanted to pay someone to create an animation FOR you (the animation itself), complete with render, that would be fine.  I know the distinction seems small, but it isn't (and a paid animation IS an expensive proposition -- even 60 seconds of animation in my world goes for $100 on up, and usually FAR up: the last paid gig I did was around $500 for a 60 second spot).

Perhaps you'll never use iClone again, but you still might consider picking up a copy. you can pick up iClone 6 Standard for around $50, and Pro for $115, which is dirt cheap and I can't imagine anyone here doing these animations for less for you anyway.  It's a valuable tool and you never know when you might need it again (and you can always upgrade to 7 down the road).



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naomi.kendall
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Kevin.S (10/12/2017)
Here is Reallusions policies about the use of software pictures and animations BigGrin


Policies

Thankyou so much - this is exactly what I needed. Cheers Smile
naomi.kendall
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Kelleytoons (10/12/2017)
There's a lot there, but I think this part is the relevent one:

You may not sell, sub-license, loan, give, or transfer any part of the CrazyTalk,CrazyTalk Animator, iClone, and/or 3DXchange or a copy thereof to another personor company.

In essence, by asking others to render your projects, you are asking them to "loan" you the program (it could also be construed as a sub-license).  Now, if you wanted to pay someone to create an animation FOR you (the animation itself), complete with render, that would be fine.  I know the distinction seems small, but it isn't (and a paid animation IS an expensive proposition -- even 60 seconds of animation in my world goes for $100 on up, and usually FAR up: the last paid gig I did was around $500 for a 60 second spot).

Perhaps you'll never use iClone again, but you still might consider picking up a copy. you can pick up iClone 6 Standard for around $50, and Pro for $115, which is dirt cheap and I can't imagine anyone here doing these animations for less for you anyway.  It's a valuable tool and you never know when you might need it again (and you can always upgrade to 7 down the road).

Oh wow - really? I only ever saw the price of the iClone7, so i thought everyone was telling me to spend $400 and up - Thankyou so much for clearing this up for me. Oh, you've just put a massive smile on my face Smile That's a Huge difference! I'm only on a disability pension, so although $400 might not seem much to some people, thats so so so much money to me.

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Hey Kelleytoons - where did you say you could find iClone6 for sale? I'm only finding iclone7 on the main website.



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