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FW Plugin Sequence vs. Webcam

Posted By Kelleytoons 4 Years Ago
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CaseClosed
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When I was test driving Faceware a couple of years ago, the animation was created using facial bones. It became clear that Reallusion had no intention of using bones in their characters, and that was the obstacle for my intended pipeline. It seems from watching those videos posted in this thread that Faceware and Reallusion created a plugin that uses morphs for facial animation, which works with Reallusion’s preferred approach. This makes sense for Faceware to be able to provide facial mocap at such a huge discount for us. Using the imbedded Viseme technology to fine-tune facial mocap is a great advantage for iClone, though I’d prefer to just get quality facial mocap the first time. 

The primary concern I have is that the facial animation in iClone appears to not always be smooth, but rather jumps. I see this primarily in the lips. Is there a detailed demo of Faceware facial mocap using iClone’s plugin? I’d like lo see how well this new plugin will capture expressions and talking. Thanks!
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4 Years Ago by CaseClosed
Jfrog
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I was hoping that the facial Mocap would NOT rely on iClone's current speech to viseme assignment as it is messy and requires a lot of cleanup. So more clarification would be welcome. 


I really thought it wasn't.  As it is implemented now, the lip sync decoding feature is far from being real.  And I am not talking about the facial motions which will be solved with Faceware obviously. The facials for me is just ice on the cake but we need a cake.  

The primary concern I have is that the facial animation in iClone appears to not always be smooth, but rather jumps. I see this primarily in the lips. Is there a detailed demo of Faceware facial mocap using iClone’s plugin? I’d like lo see how well this new plugin will capture expressions and talking.


I would love to see some demos too with different types of characters,  real ones and cartoon characters too. Thank you!




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4 Years Ago by Jfrog
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When I was test driving Faceware a couple of years ago, the animation was created using facial bones. It became clear that Reallusion had no intention of using bones in their characters, and that was the obstacle for my intended pipeline.

Have you seen the RL_Max_Templates?
~ G1 thru G5
They earlier versions only had jaw and eye bones.
Then twist and roll bones were added.
Then RL added UI and a complete set of facial bones
"All of this Before IC6".... and the Bones are used for Lyp Snc.

It seems from watching those videos posted in this thread that Faceware and Reallusion created a plugin that uses morphs for facial animation, which works with Reallusion’s preferred approach.

Faceware exports "Bone Animation" that's refined with solvers and retargeting algorithms.
"I've NEVER seen any Markerless Facial Mocap Software "Export Vertex Animation DATA..... only bone animation data!"

Are you sure Faceware export vertex animation DATA???
Teach Me.... please.

Using the imbedded Viseme technology to fine-tune facial mocap is a great advantage for iClone, though I’d prefer to just get quality facial mocap the first time.

Allow me to break this down in easy to understand terms.

The embedded Viseme technology you speak of is "Progressive Morphing"
~ iClone Morphs, but does not have "Progressive Morphing"
Progressive Morphing is when you "Blend 2 or 3 Phonemes AND Visemes" all at ONCE to obtain that PERFECT look your after.

MYTH: Morph Animation provides better animation results than Bone-Base Animation.... Bolonga.
MYTH: Bone-Base animation provides better animation results and Vertex Animation..... Bolonga

Learn From Reallusion:
TODAY.... The most powerful method of achieving AWESOME lip syn is....
HYBRID RIG.... Bone-Base and BLEND MORPHS.

Refer to Reallusion's.... CROCODILE HUNTER
THIS is how you do it.

"All iClone needs is "PROGRESSIVE MORPHING" and iClone's Speech Engine would be COMLETE! WowRolleyes


The primary concern I have is that the facial animation in iClone appears to not always be smooth, but rather jumps. I see this primarily in the lips.

Yeah, this is what happens if you don't have Progressive Morphing.... It tends to "Snap" when blending "Certian Visemes to Certain Phonemes." Angry

Is there a detailed demo of Faceware facial mocap using iClone’s plugin? I’d like lo see how well this new plugin will capture expressions and talking. Thanks!

No Worries Here.... the results are smooth..... The Analyzer and Retargeter Takes care of this.
...the sole reason it cost so dang much. Hehe

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4 Years Ago by but0fc0ursee
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I understand your meaning when you said iClone's preferred method..... Morph (Vertex Animation)
Reallusion created the Morphing animation...

...and most love it, because it super easy. 
But....

Using ONLY bone animation....
or....
Using ONLY  Morph animation 
"Dose NOT produce that beautiful, smooth facial mocap you seek."
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@JFrog Re: One question, on the video above they said that the set was create in "Dust" or "Dusk"? and imported into clone. I did not get the name properly. Does anybody knows what is the name of this set creator?

I think they may have meant https://www.3d.sk/
Alternatively there is a NASA thing called Digital Shape Kernel https://naif.jpl.nasa.gov/pub/naif/self_training/individual_docs/27_shape_model_preview.pdf

Hope this helps.
Regards

Sean McHugh
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[b]but0fc0ursee (8/12/2017)the results are smooth..... The Analyzer and Retargeter Takes care of this.
...the sole reason it cost so dang much. Hehe


Thank you for your detailed response. Yes, I do remember now that there are face bones in the characters (thank you for reminding me), but using iClone 5 and iClone 6 I did not have access to those face bones for facial mocap. I exported the characters in multiple formats (G5, CC etc. iClone 5, iClone6) to Maya and the face bones were absent. Reallusion technical support basically told me that’s the way it is. I didn’t challenge them on their reasoning for this. I accepted they had a business strategy and that was that. I could not import face bone animation to an iClone character either. That’s why this news regarding Faceware integration into iClone is huge news for Reallusion and for me. 

As I’ve said in another thread, Faceware provided a top quality facial mocap experience for me, and it’s exciting to hear their collaboration with iClone. It’s good to hear you say that the facial mocap plugin provides smooth quality animation. Looking forward to seeing a detailed demo. Thanks!
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[b]but0fc0ursee (8/12/2017)the results are smooth..... The Analyzer and Retargeter Takes care of this.
...the sole reason it cost so dang much. Hehe


Thank you for your detailed response. Yes, I do remember now that there are face bones in the characters (thank you for reminding me), but using iClone 5 and iClone 6 I did not have access to those face bones for facial mocap. I exported the characters in multiple formats (G5, CC etc. iClone 5, iClone6) to Maya and the face bones were absent. Reallusion technical support basically told me that’s the way it is. I didn’t challenge them on their reasoning for this. I accepted they had a business strategy and that was that. I could not import face bone animation to an iClone character either. That’s why this news regarding Faceware integration into iClone is huge news for Reallusion and for me. 

As I’ve said in another thread, Faceware provided a top quality facial mocap experience for me, and it’s exciting to hear their collaboration with iClone. It’s good to hear you say that the facial mocap plugin provides smooth quality animation. Looking forward to seeing a detailed demo. Thanks!


but using iClone 5 and iClone 6 I did not have access to those face bones for facial mocap. I exported the characters in multiple formats (G5, CC etc. iClone 5, iClone6) to Maya and the face bones were absent. Reallusion technical support basically told me that’s the way it is. I didn’t challenge them on their reasoning for this. 

Regular iClone users.... Yes, that's the way it is for THEM...
But...

You have Maya... You DON'T have to settle for less.... I DIDN'T
No Face Bones  - - - - Give it face bones
~ Build a UI in Maya to control the Bones... Reallusion does this with iClone 5
~ I learned this from the RL_G5_Max Template.

You can't possible say G5 RL bones are NOT present.
Also:
Look closely at the Face.... Reallusion added approx. 60 (CP points) to control the mesh.
CP points = Point Helpers (WITH BONE PROPERTIES) that control the mesh... just like bones do!

Non-Human WILL accept facial animation.
The moment you settle for less.... They got you by the .....
Buy this
Buy that
Buy these
Buy those

Oh... HeLp  NO... I'll rig it myself and save! Rolleyes


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4 Years Ago by but0fc0ursee



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