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[NEWS!] SIGGRAPH 2017 - FACEWARE UPDATE

Posted By Joe (RL) 4 Years Ago
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LarryPlane
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Thanks my friend for stating the facts for me. I am disappointed that none of the promo videos mentioned the plugin price would be sooooooo high, but I guess that's marketing for you!to

To be honest, at my level of use, anything north pf 150 dollars needs to be thought about carefully. anything around 600dollars won't be thought about at all.

Sorry! I just thought a plugin that used a webcams would be around a hundred bucks or less. I guess I am living in fantasy land. back to hand crafting those facial animations.






Kelleytoons
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When it was first announced (not the FW but the idea of a facial mocap plugin) I was thinking along your own lines.  A few hundred would be in line with most of the stuff iClone has done like this (for example, their Kinect mocap plugin).  And there are a lot of facial capture things out there that are either free (like Adobe's, although it's 2D and works with a cloud subscription) or priced in that range (like Brekel's Facial Capture program).

Apparently, RL decided to go the Rolls Royce route (or perhaps nowadays it's a different car -- I'm an old man and can't spell Lamborghini anyway :>Wink.  It's a departure from their client base, but I do understand in some ways they wanted to do it as right as possible, and as someone else has pointed out here, just because they have a FW implementation doesn't preclude other possibilities down the road (although my hunch is they won't spend any more time now that they have any solution in place).

The list price is staggering to any hobbyist -- there are some here who don't flinch, but I can assure them they are in the minority.  I'd guess 98% of iClone's marketshare is folks who don't make a dime with it.  Those who do are thrilled, but they won't number in the hundreds, let alone thousands, so RL will be leaving money on the table.

Again, I hope it's closer to $600 than $1200, but I do understand how even THAT price is a lot.  The gold standard for most software in this range is $500 -- that's a magic number that a lot of folks can justify, even if it's more than they really want to spend.  Psychologically it's a LOT harder to get folks to spend more than that on something that isn't a core function (not the software itself -- I worked in the industry for many, many decades and I know this stuff backwards and forwards.  I used to get paid quite a lot of money for exactly this kind of analysis).  Perhaps $600 is the new $500, but any more and we are going into the "Well, forget about it" territory.

Let's see how willing RL is to show us long-time users they really care about us.  Part of the problem, I'm sure, is they don't have a lot of wiggle room after paying the license to the FW folks.  If THAT takes up the majority of the price, we are unlikely to see heavy discounts at all.  If you get in bed with the devil, you need to pay the piper (or some such thing).



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animagic
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Posted 4 Years Ago
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I guess to do facial Mocap right is in the same line as regular Mocap for which RL choose Perception Neuron. The "cheap" solution of regular Mocap with Kinect never panned out. FW will be an investment for sure; I don't make any money with my movies either...Crying


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mtakerkart
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Posted 4 Years Ago
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 I don't make any money with my movies either


That's the Hobbyist paradox Animagic Wink
They want Broadcast and professionnal feature with a "chinese" price.... And when Reallusion propose affordable price
for it (kinect mocap, puppetering facial) they yell that is crap.....
I'm only 5 years old in the Reallusion field and  I understand now their choices . Why spending 300 000$ and 2 years of developpment
with a technology that will be change in 2 years??Today  In my country subsidy are refused to develop tools that exist on the market at an offrdable price for industry.
Why reinventing the wheel??

But for me , what I understood is that the 1200 $ (regular price) Reallusion facial plugin include the Faceware live access. 
After 5 years in Reallusion the only thing I didn't understand is their marketing !! Tongue 
I think it's a cultural Wink
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4 Years Ago by mtakerkart
raxel_67
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dr.zap (8/5/2017)
raxel_67 (8/5/2017)
lp_movies/tvs (8/4/2017)
if it is in the $1000 can you guy set up a year or a two year plan  or a plan where you can pay off if you can pay for it all at once  it would help a lot of people 

I totally agree with this, specially because since the orange nightmare took office my country's currency has gone Down the crapper, so even if it is heavily discounted i wojld still have to make the choice of eating or mocaping my hungry Face, installments for payment would be awesome



LOL, you guys are joking right?  a two year plan?  Do you know how many times this software is likely to be updated in 2 whole years?  And I guess you want to keep the software while you're making payments right?  Because they can totally re-possess it if you stop paying.  They'll just send the repo man after youTongue...... But really, guys, I really don't think you have a handle on this software thing yet, but $1000 professional grade software on a 2 year plan is a hilarious idea.


First of all, thanks for making fun of our situation, something we have to live with everyday, so I guess we can appreciate someone making fun of this because it is just too damn funny, the 2 year plan was a suggestion by one poster,could be done in several ways. and yes I expect to use it while I pay, because the repo man is called DRM and will probably come in the shape of a serial number which can be invalidated remotely in case of lack of payment, I'm sure you know this with your inmense and vast knowledge of software. Our point is that for us paying a thousand dollars in one sitting is not a viable option, but please forgive us for not being loaded with cash.

Next time you decide something is funny, take two seconds and practice some god damned empathy before posting.
Kelleytoons
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Raxel,

I hear and agree with you -- and this (the FW plugin) is likely to divide iClone users into two very distinct warring camps (although to be fair that Zap guy isn't even an iClone user -- I like how folks come here to troll and have ZERO understanding of what we do).

We are likely to see a handful (a HANDFUL) of iClone users willing to spend $1K on this.  The rest, the vast majority, will find it a terrible price to pay, all the more terrible in that (for the most part) we had zero idea the promised "facial mocap" solution would be so costly.  I'd have to, myself, consider just whether I would have even upgraded to 7 if I had known (the facial mocap was the ENTIRE reason I upgraded).

To be fair, we still need to see what RL will offer us -- I have some, slim, hope that the initial price will at least be reasonable.  But for others not to understand how much of a hardship this, the thing we had been promised for so long (seems like at least a couple of years) just shows how clueless a lot of folks are.



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raxel_67
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Kelleytoons (8/6/2017)
Raxel,

I hear and agree with you -- and this (the FW plugin) is likely to divide iClone users into two very distinct warring camps (although to be fair that Zap guy isn't even an iClone user -- I like how folks come here to troll and have ZERO understanding of what we do).

We are likely to see a handful (a HANDFUL) of iClone users willing to spend $1K on this.  The rest, the vast majority, will find it a terrible price to pay, all the more terrible in that (for the most part) we had zero idea the promised "facial mocap" solution would be so costly.  I'd have to, myself, consider just whether I would have even upgraded to 7 if I had known (the facial mocap was the ENTIRE reason I upgraded).

To be fair, we still need to see what RL will offer us -- I have some, slim, hope that the initial price will at least be reasonable.  But for others not to understand how much of a hardship this, the thing we had been promised for so long (seems like at least a couple of years) just shows how clueless a lot of folks are.


thank you!
animagic
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Kelleytoons (8/6/2017)
I hear and agree with you -- and this (the FW plugin) is likely to divide iClone users into two very distinct warring camps (although to be fair that Zap guy isn't even an iClone user -- I like how folks come here to troll and have ZERO understanding of what we do).

Let's hope it doesn't come to that. Most actual iClone USERS are quite reasonable and helpful. We certainly don't need another conflict such as ensued when IClone 6 was introduced. That was a very unpleasant time on the forum.



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Kelleytoons
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Yes, I hope so as well, Ani.  I do enjoy all the dialog here, and as you say, most are understanding and reasonable.

But I also see a vast divide here -- it's one thing to pay for the Neuron Mocap suit, when no one had their hopes up for a cheap hardware solution.  It's quite another for this, that uses your own webcam and is JUST software -- and without even a heads up there are likely to be a lot of folks feeling used by RL.  But I really want to hold off making any kind of judgement until we see that early bird price.  Perhaps even *I* will be surprised (although I kind of doubt it).



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raxel_67
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That is why i think the payment plan would be a great solution, it puts the plugin at everybody's reach without being financial suicide and we can avoid dumb and divisive discussions. $1200 too much for you? Don't worry you can make 2 600 dollars payments, or even pay that in six months. RL has the drm to protect themselves, and they can sell more copies of the plugin. To me this sounds like a win win for both the users and RL



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