hi Tony, 
 I don't think he was referring to my work, but you are right, calling people or their work names is uncalled for. You can always give constructive criticism but be polite. As far as the cube, all it needs is a little more TLC that's all, I just did a quick conversion from "traditional" to "pbr" , and did minor tweaks to the shaders without changing the textures. Obviously the cube needed more textures than the ones you are given by default with the conversion, Which is a plain black for metallic and mid grey for roughness(which made it look flatish). Here is an improved version of the cube, I added a better metallic and roughness maps and improved the bump.  I cant spend too much time because im working on the tutorials to help people take advantage of the new iclone tools. But you can see that it is improved and if i had the time i can make it look even better.





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Well all seems like a pointless debate to me i would not consider Iclone a still render engine . If i want renders i go to Daz Are Iray in 3dmax .If i want animation and previz i look to iclone

Once I complete this trilogy I'm working on, you'll all see the true potential of iClone. You'll see...


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I don't know if it's a language barrier but what does mean "realistic" for things that doesn't exist ? 
I can understand to recreate old architecture , old cars ,etc... But I don't understand "realistic" about star wars or Transformers , etc... 
Anyway every one knows that's not realistic (?)

No, I think the original author was trying, at least, to compare iClone to Octane.  iClone is for animating characters, and for one-man shops.  You wouldn't use it for stills just like you wouldn't use Photoshop to do a full animated movie.  You need to compare likes to likes, that's clear.

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Mike "ex-genius" Kelley

Stuckon3d, thanks!  It looks great!
And let me take a guess at what Stuckon3D did.  He adjusted Metallic and Roughness to give gloss.  Then he took it a step further by adjusting the bump map.  Now, I saw myself today the bump map was a basic tic-tac-toe board, to give 3D to each of the 9 squares on the Rubix cube.  I believe, because it is what I could see myself doing now, is taking that bump map and overlaying it with noise bump map (say in a Photoshop-like app), and then using that new bump map to achieve a more textured look, extending the new glossiness in a subtle, but recognizably perceptible way.   To me this completes the image now, it looks much more photo-real.  Now, it may be imaginary in concept, but the materials of this imaginary concept appear to be physically accurate ("realistic")

Dr.Zap brought up great points about Octane regarding materials.  If given the right materials, the lighting mechanisms at play are natively set up to easily give photo-real output.  
iClone 7 differs in this regard as it is emulating the lighting conditions which Octane is computing.  

What I learned now is that if you have no reference for what lighting 'should' give you to be physically accurate, Octane will give you it more easily, and iClone 7 will not.
However, if you have a reference, different ballgame.  I was able to almost match Octane.  Stuckon3D showed how close the emulation can go without needing computation to achieve photo-real...Well done!    

I think the "Loft" scene would be a good one for practice. Everyone with 7 has it, and it's an indoor scene. Just needs a character or two!

It would be awesome to see how different people light it.

As it is, it is a great example, and all the various lighting could be removed to start from scratch.

why wouldn't someone use Photoshop to make an animated movie?  There is an onion skin plugin for hand cell animation?  Is that not allowed anymore?

I just tried a similar comparison,  ic7 vs indigo in my case. 
Not saying which is which though.

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Hi PSD.  An excellent comparison.  I have my guess (which I'm confident it) for which is which, but to me it reinforces what I said a couple pages ago; they're simply "different" and you need to decide which one you prefer and how much time and effort it's worth to you.

How long did each of the renders take, by the way?  I'm particularly interested in the Indigo, since that was a recent topic of conversation again.



Rendering matters?  Of course.
Lighting too, as pointed out.
Quality textures have a huge impact (just look at the quick change to the Rubik's cube in this thread).
Story?  Yes!  A thousand times, yes.
And the animation, lip sync, voice acting, sound and music, camera work, editing...

The actual render engine is only one slice of a very large pie.

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