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Justaviking's iClone 7 corner

Posted By justaviking 2 Years Ago
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Kelleytoons
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I reported the first one (back in August):

https://www.reallusion.com/FeedBackTracker/Issue/Changing-like-named-materials-with-checkmark-Affect-All-Materials-with-the-same-name-doesn-t-work

(BTW, this and the ability to change materials regardless of name are the number one thing I want to do if/when we ever get Python scripting).




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justaviking
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@KT - I knew there was some issue with it not working (probably aided by a vague memory of your report - just didn't distract myself by searching for it yet).  That is why I was surprised that changing the Renderer did indeed affect all similarly-named materials.

I'll probably add a comment to your FT Issue.  Thanks for the link.



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I made a 1 hour movie in IC 5  while learning about 3d animation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPaGqQ0laek



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justaviking (1/26/2018)
../.. My point was meant to focus on the "YouTube culture" being a barrier that good iClone films must overcome.  We should not try to make all our iClone movies "cat" and "dumb people hurting themselves" videos.  I've said many times before, a good television commercial can tell an entire "story" in 30 or 60 seconds.  So even a short iClone movie can still tell a good and complete story.  And even "short" videos can have a proper pace, taking the time to pause where they should.

But if you find a random video (as opposed to having a specific recommendation to watch it), and it's 40 minutes long, I think there is a special need to grab your audience's attention early on.  How?  Good visuals?  Beautiful music?  Some flashy particles?  I'm not sure, and of course it depends on the video.

When selecting 30 or 60-minute television shows, or 2-hour movies, that comes with one set of expectations.  But even though it's probably unfair, browsing YouTube comes with another set of expectations, and it's so, so very easy to click on to a different video.  So I think the "need" to hook the audience immediately is heightened in that environment.

So I was lamenting the challenge of getting an audience to watch a long iClone video.


That's an interesting topic indeed. How to find the right balance between the extreme Hollywood blockbuster approach where the goal is to get a maximum number of spectators then incomes and the purest "Author's Film" (not sure if it has the same meaning in English) approach where the director does not give a f..k about the audience and just want to create his Movie, his Master Piece of Art, no matter what.

I believe the first rule to have some acceptance by the audience is to be, as a director, sincere and  honest with your intention. If your intention is purely to entertain, and there is no shame in that, then you have to try to make the best you can, not just take a poor story, put a few explosions and that's it. The audience will notice, obviously. And if your intention is to create your master piece and don't give as f..k about the audience this is still valid, if you know what you are doing, and the audience will notice too. It does not mean either way the audience will like it but my feeling is that the audience almost always can tell if a movie has been made "seriously", with sincerity and honesty or with just some receipt to try to catch attention. The first spectator of your movie is yourself, if you don't like it, probably the audience won't like it too. If you think: "I have a good story but my images are crap*, the audience will probably think so. So it will be up to the audience to forgive you about the images if they think the story "override" that issue. But no matter what, it won't be a good movie. A good story perhaps. It all depends on what you are after. Good story ? Good movie (which includes good story) ? If your sound is crap, same issue. A movie is a "multiple channels" media. The audience expect all those "channels" to be good. Story, performance, camera work, cinematography, audio, etc.. And if you don't have Hollywood resources, that's not an excuse, that's a compromise and you will have to "sell" that compromise to the audience (ex: "REC"). We are in 2018, forgiveness is not expected from nowadays audiences. Your images can be crap if it is on purpose (or supposedly on purpose) granted you have something else strong enough to "sell" (again ex: "REC" among others).

So, granted you like what you have done, that you have done it sincerely and it has some strong points - the story ? the characters performances may be ? why not the audio ? at least all "channels" are quite good even if nothing is "strong" - then your movie "has the right to exist". I'm being rude here, I know.

Then Youtube or not is a secondary issue. 10 minutes or 2 hours, your movie will have some audience. The rest is purely marketing issue. Create a good trailer, make some buzz, social medias, ads campaign on CNN or in the subway Wink Just kidding. Again, if you don't have Hollywood resources, that is to be expected to have less audience than "Avatar". It is just a question of visibility. Personally I don't believe the length of the movie has an impact on its acceptance. If someone stumble on your 90 minutes films and he likes the genre and your movie is good enough, there is no reason that someone will not watch it under the pretext it is too long. He may not watch it immediately but he will surely bookmark it for later screening.

So before worrying about Youtube I believe one has to worry about first making a good movie. And the first enemy is impatience. Finding a good story or a good enough story or at least something you really like is certainly not an easy task. Making it a script or a screenplay is not easy too. Then creating a storyboard or planning camera work, perhaps up until you get an animatic or previz you like and that works is certainly not an easy task too. All that even before having created your first shot in iClone, MovieStorm, Unreal, Unity or whatever. If by impatience you decide to shortcut these steps then it is your responsibility but don't complain later on, because you would have deliberately skipped steps that could have make your movie better. You knew it and you have been warned.

Fighting impatience is very hard, in comparison, fixing technical issues is fun and easy. Smile

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guy rabiller | citizen guy | 3d technical director | youtube channel
not an animator, "idirector" perhaps - the audience will decide, icloner for sure.

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A lot of valid points made. There are so many things to consider. Fortunately for me I bought iClone to create videos of fan fictions etc for myself to enjoy. I would love to be able create popular videos but at this time that's not my main intent. However all these comments are worth listening to.

I am writing this now because of something I thought of while reading this
if you don't like it, probably the audience won't like it too

I know what I am about to say isn't what you were trying to point out.
Its just a thought that popped into my head as I read it.
Its an old statement that I always see is true

You can only please some of the people some of the time.
You can never please all of the people all of the time

I have heard reviews of so many movies where the reviewers called it rubbish and I loved it
I have also seen so many where reviewers called it wonderful and I thought it was boring.
I have also seen many where I totally agreed with what the reviewers stated.

So ultimately, I think I should just create videos according to how I want to create them.
If the video pleases me then that's all I can be satisfied with because I can guarantee there will always be plenty of people it will not please, no matter how professionally made it is.
Cannot please all of the people all of the time, only some of the people some of the time


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Kelleytoons
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There's an interesting line between staying true to your own vision ("to thine own self") and listening to the feedback of others who can help you make it better.  As someone who spent decades writing and directing I was often guilty of not doing the latter which I think is far more typical given the egos involved in this.  But you only have to look at such folks as Ed Wood or Tommy Wiseau (or even big name folks like Zach Snyder) to realize that perhaps being an auteur isn't the ideal situation.  You can easily lose sight of quality in your desire to "do it your own way."

I learned, many times the hard way, that it was important to carefully consider the criticism of folks I trusted.  And I think my work got much better as a result.  Which isn't to say that there weren't times when even then after carefully considering what they had to say I didn't say "thank you but I'm doing it the way I think instead."  And I've been both rewarded and punished for that.

Today, retired and doing things strictly to amuse myself, there is far less pressure (and truth be told, if you aren't making money at it you should do damn well anything you want -- life is too short and death too long to worry about those things).  But I still (mostly) run things by my most trusted associate for over three decades, and she (my wife) is a very good barometer of when I'm going far afield.  Listening to her has kept me steered (mostly) right in not only my creative life, but my personal one.  I can't overemphasize how important it is to have that one person that you truly value who can call you on your BS.



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Dr. Nemesis (1/24/2018)
I'm currently making a 70 minute film in Iclone and it would be cool to know of any other people doing something similar. 
I check youtube everyday for new Iclone videos and I'm kinda saddened that even with the release of Iclone 7 I don't often find great examples of Iclone's capability.
To this day one of my all time favourite Iclone  videos is this one which I believe was made in Iclone 5!
Is there anyone here actively working on larger projects? Would be nice to compare notes from time to time.


That is an extraordinary video, superbly executed. It shows that the potential Iclone has for making movies is not in fancy rendering, but in the skill of the creator. (It also shows that using physics with hair has always been a pita to work with in Iclone)Wink    Thanks for pointing us to this.

I am doing an Iclone project kind of loosely inspired by the old movie serials, one big story told in a collection of episodes. Each episode runs 20-25 minutes, so in the end it will be a pretty long project. 







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JAV - what are your thoughts on the upcoming planned developments for CC & iClone?  Do you see it altering your workflow?
Now that it's been able to sink in, would enjoy hearing your take on it.
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I am (probably not completely) opposite to that.
My workflows, have and always will get adjusted very often, based off suggestions or things I have noticed from what I have seen from other people and not just my own views.
So I wasn't trying to say not to listen or use what is said by other people. There are many people way more advanced than me.

Rather, I was just trying to say I wont be overly concerned about what other people are going to think of my video while working on a video project,
because you just cant please everyone all the time no mater how good it is.
One of the greatest movies.....ever....... to me is avatar. And I personally know several people who hated it.






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justaviking
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TonyDPrime (2/28/2018)
JAV - what are your thoughts on the upcoming planned developments for CC & iClone?  Do you see it altering your workflow?
Now that it's been able to sink in, would enjoy hearing your take on it.


Thanks for asking.
Referring to the workflow I described in this post in the "iClone 7 a big leap forward" thread:  https://forum.reallusion.com/FindPost357709.aspx

I do not see the wonderful advances fundamentally changing how I approach making a project.  I expect my overall methodology will remain the same.
- Story
- Rough out the entire project
- Voices
- Iterate/iterate/iterate, focusing on fixing the worst aspects first, until I'm satisfied or I run out of time.
- Publish

I do look forward to the improvements in Character Creator, and perhaps I'll spend more time making more varied and interesting people rather than using the default avatars.



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