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new at this, what do I need to start?

Posted By bpkantor 3 Years Ago
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rgreenidge
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Rampa, in my experience both are important depending on what you use in your scenes, NVidia cards work with some kind of particle crap, which I don't use. I bought both type cards AMD also, but I usually bough the card who gave me the most for the money. I've been buying mostly AMD video cards, because it was easier for me to look at the numbers, and to see which ones were more powerful, where it seemed like NVidia cards had hundreds of models just like their processors and wasn't that that simple choosing the top model to somewhere in between.. To be specific using iClone when I went from a video card with 1 GB of RAM,  to 2 GB of RAM, the only difference I saw was that I could smoothly pan around inside of my scenes, and when I went to a 8 GB Video card, it didn't solve the problem I had with the cars I bought from Big Boss, who told me I need at least 5 GB of RAM. Again it was something in the wheels of some cars that was slowing my playback choppy. I also read after I got the 8MB video card, that only 4 GB worked unless I had two 4K monitors, which I don't. To say that the Video card is the most important thing I will have to disagree. I can buy a 1080 card, and I would not be able to add more avatars, which was the most important thing to me if I only had 32 GB of mother board RAM. Also if you don't have the right processor on your motherboard, or the right motherboards you cannot use all the streams even if you have a NVidia 1080 Video card. The thing I want to point out, It's just not that simple to say the Video card is the most important. Other than panning around my scenes I've seen no difference in video quality from 1 GB to 8 GB with 3 different cards. The only difference I see is with the MP4 video encoder that came with iClone 4 & 5, and poor one with iClone 6, which gives me a smaller file. It's the reason I will probably not buy iClone 7, because they are not telling us what their output formats will be. I would love to see a H.265 or that they improved their mp4 (H.264) encoder. But I'm going to stick to PNG sequential until iClone stops crashing during rendering. As I said here for the first time, the only improvement I've seen on two different top of the line AMD to almost top of the line Intel system, is that with my video cards, I've only see a improvement when I'm panning while I'm working on a project. It doesn't stutter like with the 1 GB video card. To see what motherboard RAM does. I put two videos on YouTube, one with 64 GB of RAM on my motherboard. After I added all the lights that you see in the second video, I was only able to add 4 more avatars before the animation playback was off time with the music, and with the last avatar, I could not add puppet animation to it. It wouldn't activate. After I added 32 GB more of RAM for a total 96 GB, I was able to add puppet animation to that avatar. But after even that the playback was still a little off with the audio. The next day I maxed out my motherboard with 128 GB of RAM, I added more Avatars some of which you can barely see because they are in the shadows upstairs, and including a couple of CC characters, and I feel I can add a lot more because nothing has slowed down. There is no way the video card can do this. What would I get if upgraded to NVidia 1080? Nothing extra, I guarantee that. Even if it made my avatars and scenery sharper, once I output it to the video encoders iClone provides for us, we lose it. I compared a MP4 encoding to PNG Sequential converted to a mp4 with a good MP4 encoder, and the difference most people will not notice. In my conclusion a video card is important, but not as important as the RAM on the motherboard. These two videos on You tube show what 64GB of RAM compared to 128 GB RAM can do, and I could have added a lot more things to the scene, but I chose to stop here because I'd be blocking all the work I did. Now can anyone here show me on You tube or on here, how your project looks different on a let's say NVidia 1070 compared to a NVidia 1080? You can't. So most important? I don't think so. My new video is here:    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TQlDD6EXRs   Older video with a nearly 64GB of RAM limitation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMfEQudj0OQ both under rioleo8. Motherboard RAM prices seem to have risen since October. DDR4 Memory for 32 GB is around $200. Now and this is my interpretation that this is what Rampa is saying? If you bought 32GB of RAM for $200 and a NVidia GTX 1080 card which goes for about $600, it's more important. I'm saying if you bought a $200 video card and use 96 GB of RAM $600, it's the only way you could have added those Avatars and moving props in my project. I guarantee if I bought a GTX 1080 card, removed half my RAM memory and back to this project to a earlier saved date, add then one Avatar at a time, and before I reach to where I am now, I guarantee when I add avatar motions, it will grey out or not function. Now I know no one will do something as time wasting putting their old video card in their computer, but if you have a electronics or computer programming background you should know this. The proof is on YouTube, right in front of your eyes, and if I didn't state what video card I have, you wouldn't know what I have. Now that's my conclusion. I want to know what Rampa saw where he came to his conclusion that the Video card in his view is the most important thing in his projects so everyone can take notes and decide what works best for them. Let me make one thing clear, I'm not one of those AMD vs Intel guys. I want to get the most for my money. If Rampa or anyone here can prove to me by showing that having a GTX 1080 card stops my iClone from crashing, improves my mp4 encoding, I'll buy one tomorrow. I posted my results, for all to see, not theory everything works on paper or a blackboard. Is a GTX 1080 card worth paying $600 I really want to know. I'm showing everyone what I get with 64 GB of RAM and 128 GB RAM. I'm not here to argue put anyone down. I really want a reason to get the GTX 1080, but for myself I don't think it will change anything. Years ago someone told me the women in the Dominican Republic look better than the ones in Brazil. After sending him 100's of photo's of those I took photos of in Brazil, I got all kinds of excuses except any photos. I'm from Missouri when I don't believe things, I'm 66 and electronics has been my thing since 8. Sorry but that's the way I am, If I tell you something works like this, I will show you and I expect the same. If I don't know, I don't know and will tell you so. All I'm saying if you are going to say that video cards are the most important part of your computer system, I like to know how you came to this conclusion and based on how it affects the projects we work on iClone, and can you tell me what differences I will observe spending $400 for a GTX 1080? I have shown the difference between spending $400 on RAM. So what's the difference in spending $400 more on a video card, I guess that is my question, and can you show me?


 

Home built; ASRock X570 Pro 4, AMD Ryzen 9-390X CPU, ASUS GTX-1080 TI, 11GB OC video card, 131GB of RAM.

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3 Years Ago by rgreenidge
rgreenidge
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A $500 iClone system? It may be done, but it would be hard doing it with Intel? You need to go to Micro Center and compare to Newegg because they had the best Motherboard/CPU combos I've seen. A AMD 460 video card which is pretty good is about $120, RAM memory, power supply and a simple case. Win10 (Oh boy another $100 and a cheap DVD ROM).  Hard drive, monitor? Try to get a AMD FX-CPU with 6 or 8 cores. 8 cores preferred. AMD bundle CPU & MB  8 core is a minimum of $160, but it has DDR3 memory. Sad to say 8 GB of this memory is about $55 a piece. 16 GB will probably work ok, but I would max it to 32 GB. We're talking about +$200 for 32GB of Mem. We're at $580 minus the Case and DVD ROM. Very hard for $600. Remember no hard drive or monitor also. I can't see it. Upgrading a IBM type computer would be about $500 and you already have Windows, a power supply, case, CD ROM. From scratch more like $700. Sorry, I was hoping I could find cheaper.   Good luck.!

Home built; ASRock X570 Pro 4, AMD Ryzen 9-390X CPU, ASUS GTX-1080 TI, 11GB OC video card, 131GB of RAM.

brand468
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From https://reallusion.com/event/iClone7-preorder/

System Requirements
iClone 7 has the same system requirements as the iClone 6 DX11 System Requirements. >
For real-time GI editing in iClone 7, please refer to the recommended requirements for NVIDIA VXGI*:
Graphics card GeForce GTX 970 (4GB Memory), or above
Intel i5 dual core CPU, or higher
8GB main memory, or higher

Note:
To know more about NVIDIA’s VXGI, visit NVIDIA GeForce - Technology - VXGI Technology
For more about GPU requirements for VXGI, refer to VXGI – Supported GPUs
For computers with lower GPU hardware, you will need to turn off real-time GI viewport render for better editing performance, however you still can get fine render results with GI quality
GI also works with ATI cards, delivering correct visuals but with less performance



My computer: Intel i7-7700K 4.2Hhz 64Gb, Windows 10, GeForce GTX 1080 + GeForce GTX 1070, Phillips monitor 40" 4K  3840x2160 + 2x28" 

animagic
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Re "Cheap PC": Remember, when using an AMD graphics card, Global Illumination will have to be handled by the CPU and RAM, so one has to take that into account.

And whatever you do, DO NOT use a $20 brand-less power supply. We haven't talked much about power supplies, but a bad one can cause much grieve. I've used Corsair for my builds and have been quite pleased with it. There are several other good brands.

Some cases may come with a power supply, but again, get a respectable brand.


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rgreenidge
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I'd like to add to what Animagic said. I'm not trying to scare anyone, but I've seen where at least I got two calls where people called and the power supply they bought burned out or caught their motherboard on fire. Luckily the CPU survived. But a bad or cheap power supply could fry your whole system if a part shorts out. Then your whole system can get fried. No, that's not a LED in your power supply that's glowing. Don't believe every power rating that's on the box. Take time to read the customer reviews. And if you system fries, maybe you'll get your money back, or a replacement power supply of the same, but nothing else. Some companies in China have about 6-8 names, same product thought. Everyone's budget is not the same we know that, and most of us have been there. I think I'll write a article on Reallusion and call it; Computers, software and upgrading from DOS. 

Home built; ASRock X570 Pro 4, AMD Ryzen 9-390X CPU, ASUS GTX-1080 TI, 11GB OC video card, 131GB of RAM.

Rampa
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The compact 1060 system you mentioned in your other thread will be fine for iClone. I would start with it. Stick with Intel and Nvidia. AMD really will not save you much money, and seems to have more compatibility issues (with iClone).

If you do go for an inexpensive AMD card, the only one you should consider is the RX480/8 gig. Although you probably not find it any cheaper than an Nvidia 1060/6gig.

The GI in iC7 will run in realtime on any directX 11 or higher card with enough power, Nvidia or AMD. It does need to be at least GTX 970 level of power. I still say go with a 1060/6 gig.



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