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What's the gap for iClone 6 users to achieve this?

Posted By pmaina 8 Years Ago
Rated 5 stars based on 1 vote.
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Bellatrix
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pmaina (1/8/2016)Watch & discuss.

Swoop and animatom summed up the gist of my view
but here's a light "discuss"...

Technical:
Pluses: audio quality; camera skill
Minuses: SFM render capability is barely exploited
Mediocre facial animation; the usual dead game eyes

Creative:
Pluses: composition, pacing, editing and use of sound
Minuses: shadow-less floaty actors and scene focus objects

Shadow fail is not a technical challenge, but a creative oversight
It is a hallmark of amature productions
In this case, it is not a sloppiness issue (this team is discipline) but a blindspot
In CG narrative it is one of the most common visual fail 'red herrings'
as in distracting nonsensical elements that takes viewer out of immersion

Not important for hobbyists making silly goofy plot-less videos of course
For as a "showcase" art work, it is a testament to the grade of the elusive creative vision

Overall, it's good job within its context (Source community non-commercial project)

Great thread btw. 5 stars. Smile


  >>> Indie Generalist modeler-rigger-animator <<< Hardware: AlienWare i7-HK 32G GTX1080 2T-SSDs BenqSW320 Wacom-Intuous 3Dconnexion ||| Software: IC6 Pipeline - CTA3 Pipeline - ATK2 - Indigo ||| Zbrush4R8. Blender 2.79. DazStudio 4.9. Carrara. Poser. Octane.


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8 Years Ago by Bellatrix
Bellatrix
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pmaina (1/9/2016)
mtakerkart (1/9/2016)

The exemple you showed have a team of 7 people working on that, each of them have there own skills.That's the only gap with iClone video vs all others....


This is why I keep asking for Team Workflow in iClone. I don't know if its in the roadmap but I think someone at RL should try squeeze it in if it isn't.


Responding to two keywords here, team, and skills
Which, to me, defines the gap in your question
What's the gap for iClone 6 users to achieve this...

Community maturity matters...
The whole community as in tool maker policy + users

Game engine filmmaking community evolution...IMHO

primitive: hyper-reactive esp to high end/ skilled users (infant years)
high school: myopic obsession with 1 out of 10 CG film technical disciplines (iClone)
skilled: CG generalist technical hurdles crossed, focus on playing (Source 1&2, Cryeditor 1&2, iClone 5%)
skilled team: committed high discipline users (Source2 thanks to Dota and Garry's Mod, UE4)

Pro level workflow supporting tool upgrade will attract more high end CG users
At current snailtime rate, iClone community will probably turn 20% skilled in 2019

Skilled users could be pro or hobbyists, free garage tools or $$$$ tool users
In more universal term, they are self-taught or schooled CG generalists 
Even with a skilled team, doens't mean commerical value grade, nor profit

Even if the goal is a 'non-project non-story vanity project'...

A polished 3D film of Source2/UE4 quality can be done with IC6
doesn't mean it's feasible logistically - even with a skilled team
There remained a HUGE production capability gap between iC6 and SFM
No pro workflow, no WIP road map of pipeline6, no production readiness
As off today it will take longer, more brains
more brute force labor to operate more external supplementary tools
to produce a polished film of the same quality in iClone6 vs Source2

Not to say iClone6 won't mature into am SFM, UE Matinee or Cinebox alternative for polished film making

Carry on... Smile


  >>> Indie Generalist modeler-rigger-animator <<< Hardware: AlienWare i7-HK 32G GTX1080 2T-SSDs BenqSW320 Wacom-Intuous 3Dconnexion ||| Software: IC6 Pipeline - CTA3 Pipeline - ATK2 - Indigo ||| Zbrush4R8. Blender 2.79. DazStudio 4.9. Carrara. Poser. Octane.


pmaina
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mtakerkart (1/9/2016)
Because I've my last child be 4 years old , we see lot of time this kind of video , made with Iclone with dozen of millions vues:




Like I said before : What is good???


12 Million plus views - yes but still it seems like the only way for an iClone video to attract views is to use "shock factor", political satire (hugely connected to current news - and high risk of libel litigation) and/or click-baiting (as appears to be the case in this video - which is illegal if content rating laws that protect kids are applied). This is not sustainable. Not genuine clicks in my view and am sure RL wouldn't want to be associated with inappropriate click-bait videos in their marketing!

Can we have more credible examples please?


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8 Years Ago by pmaina
planetstardragon
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i find it curious that when it comes to render quality,  that for the most part,  most animators bee-line for hyper realism.   I've been studying a lot of animated videos, and general commercial type videos,  and ironically enough,  the most commercial style is flash,  and most anime are digital hand-drawings done with toon boom.   -  the only places i see the game engine - hyper realistic renders is either in movies - mixed in with real footage,  or game trailers.- stills are a big deal with 3D though,  but otherwise there are shorts on youtube,  but they get very little views in comparison to the more 2D or anime styles.   

I'd love to see iclone claim it's own popular genre,  but i really don't think the rendering engine is the most important thing to filling that 'gap' 
- granted,  it could always be better,  i'm not saying it's great -  but things like expressions would matter more to me,  because these are things that evoke emotions from viewers and directly add to the story.  The rendering itself doesn't weigh heavy on me because you can do a ton to the video with post effects and color grading.



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8 Years Ago by planetstardragon
pmaina
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jarretttowe (1/9/2016)
But does youtube compensate her for these? I hope so.


I don't think she monetized her channel. She could have earned about $5000-$10,000? Enough to pay back for her previous iClone investment.

The "borderline clickbait" video (king kong v/s dinosaur) has monetized and is probably earning a fortune already.

pmaina
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VirtualMedia (1/10/2016)
planetstardragon (1/9/2016)
that's easy,  with custom morphs.   

I finally figured out why the smiles on iclone characters look so sterile,   there is no cheek animation -  without the cheeks curling up,  it looks like a robotic smile. 

what we need overhauled is better ways to access and animate the morphs beyond the limited sets of profiles we are allowed to create in 3DX5.      it's possible,  just severely restricted.




Absolutely 113% agree! There's many valid points on this thread but the sterile robotic open shut mouth and eyes is a believe-ability killer.  Continued improvements to the realtime render engine will always be a plus, but lifelike expressions would make have a huge impact on the quality of likable IC movies. Cheek curling, improved jaw movement / rotation, cheek expansion / puff, lip rolls, eye and brow improvements ...

I posted this ex in wishful features, notice there's no great rendering, lighting, texturing... but it's very pleasing to watch.








This is awsome. If iClone could offer better expressions it would be the the most valuable upgrade ever. If I was asked to choose only ONE upgrade feature this year, this would be it.
animagic
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pmaina (1/9/2016)
So what keeps iCloners from making tons of "wow!" clips (I have only seen very few). is it tool limitations or has RL marketed to the wrong demographic? Perhaps RL should bring visual storytellers into their marketing arsenal.

I wouldn't know; I'm not an "iCloner" and I don't know what "wows" you. Obviously iClone is a tool for visual storytelling; that is the part that is of interest to me, and the reason to make movies using the tool. The perceived shortcomings (which are real enough) are often an excuse not to create anything. You see the same in other areas where art and technology meet.



https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/436b0ffd-1242-44d6-a876-d631.jpg

planetstardragon
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yep,  that blend shapes video has more entertainment value than how realistic the shadows look.  I agree,  i'd love control like that in iclone.



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8 Years Ago by planetstardragon
animatom
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Well... maybe off the main topic, but I made video-wall animation for song "Handler" of band "Muse" for their world tour (I heard millions saw it) and, based on that video, I made official "Handler" song lyrics video - watched over 7 millions on youtube.
What I want to say, iClone can be used for high-end professional work and that work can be numbered in millions. Of course, it depends on context.. (on how popular train we put our wagon, for example... Smile )

.
pmaina
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Bellatrix (1/10/2016)

As off today it will take longer, more brains more brute force labor to operate more external supplementary tools to produce a polished film of the same quality in iClone6 vs Source2


Indeed. When defining priorities, RL developers should wear a generalist producer's hat and map the production process to tool capabilities at each step of the production process (possibly innovating with shortcuts and EZ buttons that will disrupt the industry and bring about a new revolution with regards to production effort, time and cost).

A good number of users are saying here that they would like to have their entire 3D animation workflow in iClone. This is a huge long-term business opportunity for RL IMO if they can focus on enhancements that reduce reliance on third party tools.

Priorities being efficient, team oriented workflow and face morphing (wide range of believable expressions. kill the zombie/robot look).


Edited
8 Years Ago by pmaina

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