Yeah, I'm with you completely on this one but, as I said initially, I'm really just a newbee here (having bought iClone 1 and then skipped things until version 5 last year, which I bought but never even booted up once).  IC6 is an amazing advance in 3D animation technology and while it doesn't do it all right it certainly is getting there.  But I'm not quite sure why folks are so angry when they did NOT remove the face mapping feature -- it's still there for G5 characters.  They've just gone forward with an enhanced feature set for their brand new model of G6/Character Creator.

So here's one more way of looking at this for those of you so angry -- I was THIS close to paying $300 for FaceGen in order to do what this new software will do.  Granted, FaceGen is a bit more adaptable to "random" faces, but in playing with the demo I found it was absolutely awful at building the morphs I needed for use in iClone.  I was working a way through doing what I could, though, when this announcement hit.  And while it's hard to tell from a demo video, it looks pretty damn close in every way to what I would have had to pay $100 more for (and it WILL do the morphs correctly and, hopefully, make a seamless transition into CC).

Now, the whole "buy $250 worth of content and get it for free" has folks up in arms -- I almost think they should have forgone that.  Don't get me wrong -- I'm going to do it, and consider the cost of the software $50, because I would have definitely spent (over the course of the next year, when I can use my DA points I'll buy) that much anyway.  I find it hard to believe, though, that all the folks here crying foul and talking about how much money they've spent with RL over the years aren't going to spend that much more over the course of the next two or three years in content.  Really?  You have absolutely ALL the content you'll ever buy?  Even if RL releases new clothes, hair, body options for the G6?  If so, my answer to you is that you most likely have all the 3D heads you ever need as well.  But perhaps skipping that path might have at least had folks decide, one way or another, whether they really needed 3D heads for G6 as much as they seem to say they do (some people say they harder ever used that feature in G5 -- for those it should be a non-factor -- while others say they used it all the time, and it's still there so, again, a non-factor).

But I don't want to get hated on here either -- and let's face it, no matter what anyone says in this thread, RL has made up their mind and it won't change (can you imagine the uproar if they DID change it from folks who have gone ahead and made purchases as a result?  Would be MUCH worse than this is now).  The best any kind of whining here will do is perhaps get them to reconsider things for the NEXT move.  

(And now I'll go away and anxiously await the middle of December.  Maybe Christmas IS coming early this year!)

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Alienware Aurora R16, Win 11, i9-149000KF, 3.20GHz CPU, 64GB RAM, RTX 4090 (24GB), Samsung 870 Pro 8TB, Gen3 MVNe M-2 SSD, 4TBx2, 39" Alienware Widescreen Monitor
Mike "ex-genius" Kelley

it certainly looks like a cool app and may buy points to qualify  after my next pay
iC6 still has face fitting for G5 and below so not entirely without it so not that disappointed, you can Frankenstein heads hiding parts if needed.
this looks improved and prob a better way to go than all in one app, maybe even usable in other apps and better for 2D animation and video editing work using real footage and photos outside of iClone.

I am truly exited about this news RL,it seems I will be able to really truly utilize iClone now for my needs,I've waited and begged for a  good face fitting option on par with Facegen & Faceshop for a long time here.

Looking forward to its release in December.

My hope is we have a simple way to make quality hair to go with this. That was the main problem using Facegen & Faceshop ,I can get a really good looking likeness of a person but the hair was always the issue.

  Also I like the feature with the hair spring affect in CT8 but I would like to transfer that head with hair movement to use on a body in CTA2 Pipline,will that be possible?

I was tempted to bite on the buying content  thing but I will wait to see how much the upgrade from CT7 is.

Like others it is a little disappointing to not have a quality custom face fitting option in iClone 6 but the  Reallusion team seems to always raise the bar in new innovative features at reasonable prices,so I'm normally a sucker when it comes to giving them my money for something new.

| Windows 11 64bit / iClone7 Pro / Headshot Plug-in / Character Creator v4 / Perception Neuron Profile for Motion LIVE 2D Plug-in/ CrazyTalk 8 Pipline / FaceFilter v3 PRO / Cartoon Animator 5 Pipeline/Serif DrawPlus X8 / 3DXchange 6 Pro / WidgetCast PRO / DP Animation Maker / PopVideo 3

Hopefully nobody will feel "hated" for voicing an alternate viewpoint.

I think most of us here have at one time or another been the voice of opposition to the majority; sometimes siding with Reallusion's decisions, sometimes not.  (I liked the new interface, mostly, while others equated it to the bubonic plague.)

Personally, as long as people are being rational and reasonably articulate, I can tolerate and maybe even understand their viewpoint (whether or not change my opinion).

Am I in the "disappointed" crowd?  Yes.
Do I hope the re-bundle it to be part of CC?  Yes.
Am I going to go ballistic and threaten lawsuits?  No.
Am I going to think poorly of those who support Reallusion's packaging of the face/photo tool?  Hey, we're family! 

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iClone 7... Character Creator... Substance Designer/Painter... Blender... Audacity...
Desktop (homebuilt) - Windows 10, Ryzen 9 3900x CPU, GTX 1080 GPU (8GB), 32GB RAM, Asus X570 Pro motherboard, 2TB SSD, terabytes of disk space, dual  monitors.
Laptop - Windows 10, MSI GS63VR STEALTH-252, 16GB RAM, GTX 1060 (6GB), 256GB SSD and 1TB HDD

Hopefully this will be my last post on this topic (until I am able to thank RL for making the change many of us hope for).


WHY WE MIGHT FEEL BETRAYED
(OR AT THE VERY LEAST, MISLEAD)

Consider this message:  https://forum.reallusion.com/FindPost251878.aspx
(Emphasis is mine):


When I read this, three things jump out at me:
1) A "6.3 update" sure sounds like a 6.x update to iClone.  So it was reasonable to assume we were talking about functionality coming to iClone 6.3.
2) It says "also" links with CT8.  Also!  It does not in any way tell you "only" or that you "must" have CT8.
3) Even if you did magically suspect you'd need CT8, nowhere does it hint at needing the more expensive Pipeline version.

How long had Reallusion known it would not be "iClone" functionality as indicated in posts like this?
Yeah, that's why we are surprised, disappointed, annoyed, and even upset.

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iClone 7... Character Creator... Substance Designer/Painter... Blender... Audacity...
Desktop (homebuilt) - Windows 10, Ryzen 9 3900x CPU, GTX 1080 GPU (8GB), 32GB RAM, Asus X570 Pro motherboard, 2TB SSD, terabytes of disk space, dual  monitors.
Laptop - Windows 10, MSI GS63VR STEALTH-252, 16GB RAM, GTX 1060 (6GB), 256GB SSD and 1TB HDD

Right, that's why I said their biggest (and, in my mind, only) mistake was not properly preparing the existing base for this move.  Either Peter was somewhat out of the loop (quite possible) or he misspoke (because they DO have to release a new version of iClone to support all this, I bet -- it's just that the functionality to do the whole thing isn't there).

I remember thinking (most likely because of these quotes) that it was indeed coming to an iClone release but it doesn't disappoint me that I have to spend more money and, as I stated, from a programming standpoint it's actually a Good Thing it isn't part of iClone.   And $50 is pretty trivial (again, considering that I'd have spent the remaining $200 on content anyway).

However, let me point out one unfortunate consequence of this may well be that Peter won't be nearly as forthcoming with his pronouncements as to future developments, and I think that would be a Bad Thing.  I'd rather at least know about things that are coming (even if the pricing and/or timing isn't correct) than to not know anything at all.

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Alienware Aurora R16, Win 11, i9-149000KF, 3.20GHz CPU, 64GB RAM, RTX 4090 (24GB), Samsung 870 Pro 8TB, Gen3 MVNe M-2 SSD, 4TBx2, 39" Alienware Widescreen Monitor
Mike "ex-genius" Kelley

True, it's a double-edged sword.
Most of us understand slipped dates, functionality being pushed back to the next update, and modest changes to functionality.
It's when things that have been talked about for months fundamentally change at the time of release that it's hard not to complain.

I'm certain Peter (RL) communicated in good faith, and never meant to deliberately mislead anyone or give false hopes.  We don't know what he was told, when he was told, or what instructions he was given by his employer.  We try not to shoot the messenger, but we hope he will carry our messages back to his management and convey the passion the loyal customer base feels, both when we're thrilled and when we're upset.

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iClone 7... Character Creator... Substance Designer/Painter... Blender... Audacity...
Desktop (homebuilt) - Windows 10, Ryzen 9 3900x CPU, GTX 1080 GPU (8GB), 32GB RAM, Asus X570 Pro motherboard, 2TB SSD, terabytes of disk space, dual  monitors.
Laptop - Windows 10, MSI GS63VR STEALTH-252, 16GB RAM, GTX 1060 (6GB), 256GB SSD and 1TB HDD

Thanks, Viking, for finding that post. I knew I had seen it...

As to content, I don't buy content I don't need, such as heads. I prefer to do my own...

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Agreed.   By having the software separate, it opens more options.

Quality hair!!    I need to learn more about the hair spring effect in CT8 you mentioned. 

I hope they work with multiple facial mocap companies to create an interface or plugin for each one of them, so we have our choice, and so we don't need to use other software to interface for that purpose.

It's not a vital feature for me but if they had implement facial motion capture in CT8 pipeline it will be like a nuclear warhead in the cgi world!!!!
Easy exportable facial mocap in game engine world!!!!!
And of course I will buy it invariably !!!