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Indigo a bad fit for Animation? Quits exporting a scene midway

Posted By cly3d 4 Years Ago
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Indigo a bad fit for Animation? Quits exporting a scene midway

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cly3d
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Posted 4 Years Ago
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As in the title.
I have a simple sequence of an imported Daz genesis character.
Applied one of the Suave Heidi moves. 
Animation is about 300 frames.

,..when I try to export the range to Indigo, it just quits exporting randomly.
Sometimes stops exporting after 20 IGI frames, sometimes 35....

What's going on here? Have Reallusion actually tried doing a sequence export of a more than 20 frame animation?
Iclone is supposed to be a video production tool - a movie making tool
Why pair it with a renderer that doesn't seem geared to handle animation? (in the iclone context)

Let's not even get into the fact that each(!) frame of an animation needs to have it's own folder or all the meshes, and (all!) the materials copied to the Disk.
I'm willing to live with that. but can Reallusion please take a look at why Iclone is quitting when exporting an Indigo 'sequence' after 20 or 30 frames?

cly3d
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I see this export bug has not been addressed for the past two months.
Taken from this thread: https://forum.reallusion.com/210609/iClone-Indigo-Render-Showcase?PageIndex=5

Don't get me wrong, I love the ease of use of iClone, the physics and update to cloth draping/simulation, the use of no-brainer graduated weight maps for physics makes it easy for novices to get into the game.
In comparison, painting constraints in Poser, for example, is not so intuitive, and the mesh/sim updates bring even a beefy machine to it's knees.

That's why I've come back to iClone.
Can this bug be brought to the attention of the team responsible for the Indigo plugin?
And while they're at it, also the option to reference just one set of textures, and not do it the lazy way of exporting ALL mesh textures per Frame!

Regards.
cly3d
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https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/a5dd8d5a-0ce5-414c-855c-2589.jpg

This is just plain ridiculous. 3 hours to "export" a 5 second animation at 25fps. Forget about the amount of hard diskspace this "scene export" is taking.
Note: This is not the time it's taken to render... just the pre-render "scene export"!!

Also, it's only exported 235 frames out of the total 580 frame animation (approx 9 1/2 second animation)
iClone just silently quits the progress bar. No errors message,  no nothing.

This is serious. We've paid for this plugin. I think it deserves priority Troubleshooting.

**edit**
Here's the original larger version image: http://i.imgur.com/hghsgXj.jpg
Edited
4 Years Ago by cly3d
cly3d
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Part of the puzzle solved.
I didn't realize iClone didn't follow animation / video production convention for it's timeline.
This thread from 4 years ago: https://forum.reallusion.com/82184/iClone-renders-only-half-the-number-of-frames-on-the-timeline

I re-did the entire animation from scratch, and this time the Indigo plugin exported the (albeit still took 3 hours!) pre-render IGS files of approx 240 something...frames.
The confusing part is seeing 580 frames on your timeline and only half those as exported.

Hope this helps any newbies venturing into timelines/video production under iClone 6.
animagic
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There have been past discussions of Indigo issues and some cannot be solved on the iClone side.

Some of the problems have to do with the way Indigo handles sequences (without data-sharing). The plugin creates the files according to Indigo specifications, so it has little say over what the format looks like. Hopefully a future update of Indigo will make it more suitable and implement data sharing.

The reason to export as scene sequences is probably that this still goes faster then rendering. So the scene sequence becomes kind of a buffer after which iClone can be used for something else. With a buffer each frame can be rendered as long as necessary to reach the desired quality.

However, the way this is implemented is very inefficient since each frame requires a complete scene with geometry, textures, etc.

Currently, I think there is little that can be done at the iClone side to improve the situation. One hope is that other render plugins become available that might be more suited for animation. I preordered and had high hopes, but even single scenes (just stills) can have Indigo fill up my RAM completely. I had a scene with maybe a hundred trees (which are quire efficient in iClone) that Indigo could not handle.




https://forum.reallusion.com/uploads/images/1a09220f-ab50-42ac-ad1a-33ec.pnghttps://forum.reallusion.com/Uploads/Images/d14339d0-cd32-4b35-88f9-40a0.png


prabhatM
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cly3d (6/13/2015)
.
The confusing part is seeing 580 frames on your timeline and only half those as exported.


Neither you are the first one nor the last one !
After a few days, a newbie will ask the same question.
Again.

cly3d
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animagic (6/13/2015)
...
The reason to export as scene sequences is probably that this still goes faster then rendering. So the scene sequence becomes kind of a buffer after which iClone can be used for something else. With a buffer each frame can be rendered as long as necessary to reach the desired quality.

However, the way this is implemented is very inefficient since each frame requires a complete scene with geometry, textures, etc...


Quite true. 
About iclone being able to do something else while the sequences are being exported is debatable. I had to wait for 3 hours! with a progress bar blocking iclone, while it exported 200 frames.

animagic (6/13/2015)

Currently, I think there is little that can be done at the iClone side to improve the situation. One hope is that other render plugins become available that might be more suited for animation. I preordered and had high hopes, but even single scenes (just stills) can have Indigo fill up my RAM completely. I had a scene with maybe a hundred trees (which are quire efficient in iClone) that Indigo could not handle.


Yeah, iClone by itself if very robust, and the learning curve is nice and easy.
I wish there was a way to export from iclone, the softbody physics to industry standard Fbx (if this is possible)for instance. That would open up a whole range of renderers.

Currently, I'm looking for a windows batch script that will let me copy a block of text (the xml setting for camera, rendering parameters, and background etc) and then recursively go through the exported frames that the indigo plugin has spit out... and paste in my preferences.
As it stands, it's a momumental task to do such a thing frame by frame in the IndigoRT renderer window for an animation.




cly3d
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Iclone crashed again exporting to Indigo Render, a 570 frame animation of a single Daz converted character. (No props or sets or other characters)
Multiple times tried to export (takes 3 hours per session) and everytime it pops up an error as it reaches frame 195.
Character has spring (on left/right pectoral) and soft cloth baked physics on hair, with collision shape on head - If this provides any clues for trouble shooting

I hope this thread gets to the attention of the team that have programmed the plugin.
Hoping it's a high priority bug hunt.

Regards.

hattori kun
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animagic (6/13/2015)

Some of the problems have to do with the way Indigo handles sequences (without data-sharing). The plugin creates the files according to Indigo specifications, so it has little say over what the format looks like. Hopefully a future update of Indigo will make it more suitable and implement data sharing.



I'm not so sure. Some sketchup and c4d users said their scenes are pointing directly to the data. Iclone has its own way of exporting in this way.
And according to Soyasu the way Iclone is exporting to indigo right now is actually bug which they will fix
https://forum.reallusion.com/225125/Indigo-RTrequests-Two-critical-improvements?PageIndex=3

To the OP. I have the same issue and requested some improvements.
https://forum.reallusion.com/225125/Indigo-RTrequests-Two-critical-improvements?PageIndex=1
Hopefully indigo plugin will receive more attention since they have a lot on their plate finishing 3dx 6 right now.

Edited
4 Years Ago by hattori kun
cly3d
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Thanks Hattori.
 Reading through the thread that you linked to, was strangely comforting, knowing that they will be ironing out these bugs.
Though 3 months without *any* update for a paid product is a little unsettling.

The software should not crash. This is a bug that needs fixing asap. I've been on Indigo forums and yes, there are a couple of threads that say the implementation of the plugin is not optimal.
Specifically the second response on this thread: http://www.indigorenderer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=13462&sid=99cb33c0639da24a768c49d31a2771c1

We know IClone is an animation / video prod software (It's not DAZ which is more of a stills production software), so to implement a professional render plugin which takes about 3 hours! just to export data to the renderer is less than an optimal way to implement an interface. It's akin to a brute force approach.

As it stands, since i'm not a programmer I've had to go find a "Macro" software to write windows macros to:
1) export a single frame to indigo
2) tweak the best lighting/camera framing/background variables in Indigo.
3) Then save the IGS from Indigo
4) Copy the first half of the IGS file (which is a standard xml file) upto the first instance of <metadata> to all the IGS frames exported from iClone.

You can imagine on 10 second animation at 25fps, how many manual cut / pastes this would need. And I'm not even talking about the nightmare if the camera were to move.
Luckily for the project I'm working on, the camera is stationary and only the talent moves.
So using MacroExpress to drill through the Directory of IGS files, search for the word <metadata>, delete everything before it, then paste from clipboard the tweaked settings block

Hashtag: Nightmare.

For now I just hope the random crashing on export bug gets fixed.


Edited
4 Years Ago by cly3d



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