Oh and by the way, just for the record, I never agreed or disagreed with any itemized priority of the upgrades.  That was your stinkin' thinkin'.  Keep it simple, just vote yae or nay.

Sifr Allah

I use iClone more as a tool to create my shots then to make complete productions.  The final shots I edit externally with shots produced else where etc.

For me if you want iClone to be a one stop shop for animation productions then you need to have a way to organize shots into scenes for editing.  However I feel by adding this, it may take away some of the more advanced animation techniques discussed/argued earlier in this post

Personally I would prefer if it stayed as it was, as a tool rather then trying to be a master of all things.

Things I like on the list:-

Ability to modify a characters shape, not just hands and head.

All lighting and camera are excellent, and paramount to good production.

Editing a motion in the Timeline will speed up production.

Undo, a must.

The one thing I would like is (Unless I've missed it):-

The ability in the preview window to move, drag and position in that window as opposed to changing values.  So like most 3D animation software you can modify size, position etc, on the actual object.  You will also be able to select a number of items and reposition as a group.  Example - A number of cars on a road, to move on mass as opposed to individually.

Other then that great stuff

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October 2009 Update!

2) "There's only one principle to modern animation...  make it appeal! Above all else, it must be adorably appealling!"
Walt Disney.

3) "Aim for their Hearts, not their heads. One tear will drown a hundred critics."
Walt Disney.

4) "If Tinklerbell was real she would still get away with murder because everyone loves her and everyone believes she's real."
Walt Disney.

POINT TWO.
Someone at CoolClones.com made a hairstyle out of objects in the architecture libraries standard with iclone. They didn't order and dictate... they just improvised and got on with it and built it.
It looked good.

Someone at icloneuniverse.com made a spiderman bodysuit. It wasn't in iclone as standard. They didn't fuss, they improvised and just got on with it and built it.
It looked good.

Someone at iclonetutorials.com wanted a working mirror in a scene. They ddin't barge about, they just improvised and got on with it and built it with a believable reflection.
It looked good.

Someone wanted to add  "real video" Pole dancing with an iClone Character. The facility isn't in IClone standard at all. They didn't antagonise, they simply improvised and got on with it.
It was very good.

Someone else at coolclones.com made a burning candle before particle effects came to be. They ddin't explode over the issue, they just improvised and got on with it.
It was very good.

Someone else actually made a flaming melting sealing wax stick that poured hot wax in a puddle on some parchment ribbon, waited, and embossed a brand seal into the wax,  indented,  over a ribbon that stuck through the hardened wax embossed. They didn't flame anyone over the issue of lacking period props, they just improvised and got on with it. it took a long long time.... like Disneys frame by frame issues.
It looked good.

POINT THREE.
a) You  mustn't speak as though your personally prioritized demands and oppinions are everyone elses. They are not.
b) And I'm afraid we don't appreciate your derogatory remarks that infer that because of "unrealistic elements" and "unbelievability" our work is therefore some how degraded and inferior and their leaving impression is tainted in some way because of elements that, really in truth, are overlooked by our audiences.
c) And if you're in the entertainment field as a self hailing "Pro" which means your employments' main income is from this kind of work, however meagre, surely you would understand the psychologies of oppinion management of the masses and employ even a mediocre degree of strategic tact.... but its missing. 
You aren't our spokesman, and shouldn't assume such extravagant posture.
Rather than trying to help Aknzrdude to understand your perspective, you're trying to beat him into submission.
Rather than accept that others have alternate prioritized understanding of requirements according to their own spheres operations, you're assuming your argument is a "One statement suits all!" declaration.
It makes us feel uncomfortable.
If we wanted perfect realism we'd buy video cameras instead and film real people.


Theatre is Theatre.
The swords are cardboard.
The Blood is Tomato Ketchup.
The people are not really dead.
The horse is two people.
The fog is Dry ice.
The Moonlight is a Blue light filter.
The water is paper scrumpled sheeting.
The Kings Crown is plastic and tin foil...not gold.
The Girl is a Guy and the Guy is a Girl.
It is, quite simply, Make-believe.
And the People flock to come in and see it from miles around and pay good money to do so.
Who cares that Tinkerbell is a pretend knee high fairy with wings & makebelieve. Everyone loves her.
And they do this because escapism for a while is priceless, and the more unbelievable the better it touches the hearts of the viewer because they will always fill in the spaces.

Siouxie Sioux, your post left me confused because you bring up no valid objective point and it's totally contradictory, let me help you guys out:

Walt Disney used the principles of animation create visually pleasing compositions, that's what makes it so believable/unbelievable, depending on the desired result he wanted to achieve. 

2) "There's only one principle to modern animation...  make it appeal! Above all else, it must be adorably appealing!"
Walt Disney.

You realize the modern time he speaks of is the 30's. That's 70 yrs. ago, modern meaning today, besides that  he says "above all else,"  above the other principles, so let's start with the basics.  This will answer point three. http://www.s1.hashmirror.com/ftp/VM/Hx_animation/hx_anim.html http://www.s1.hashmirror.com/ftp/VM/Hx_animation/hx_anim_2.html

3) "Aim for their Hearts, not their heads. One tear will drown a hundred critics."
Walt Disney.

I have yet to see this type of emotion conveyed in more than about 100 out of 200,000 iClone videos, for lack of effective use of the Crazy Talk application, and the Motion Editor program that comes with iCone Studio.   

Tinklerbell is owned by Disney, notice he mentions the word real twice.

POINT TWO.
Someone at CoolClones.com made a hairstyle out of objects in the architecture libraries standard with iclone. They didn't ..order and dictate. they just improvised and got on with it and built it.
It looked good.

Someone at icloneuniverse.com made a spiderman bodysuit. It wasn't in iclone as standard. They didn't fuss, they improvised and just got on with it and built it.
It looked good.

Someone at iclonetutorials.com wanted a working mirror in a scene. They ddin't barge about, they just improvised and got on with it and built it with a believable reflection.
It looked good.

Someone wanted to add  "real video" Pole dancing with an iClone Character. The facility isn't in IClone standard at all. They didn't antagonise, they simply improvised and got on with it.
It was very good.

Someone else at coolclones.com made a burning candle before particle effects came to be. They ddin't explode over the issue, they just improvised and got on with it.
It was very good.

Someone else actually made a flaming melting sealing wax stick that poured hot wax in a puddle on some parchment ribbon, waited, and embossed a brand seal into the wax,  indented,  over a ribbon that stuck through the hardened wax embossed. They didn't flame anyone over the issue of lacking period props, they just improvised and got on with it. it took a long long time.... like Disneys frame by frame issues.
It looked good.

Order and dictate, fuss, barge, explode, antagonise....,nice management of your psychological opinion.  The majority of the tools that these individuals improvised already exist.  If the tools were avilable in the next installment of iClone, productivity as well as realism would improve greatly. http://www.hash.com/ftp/VM/Hx_animation/evolution.html   Oh, by the way Spiderman is owned by Marvel.  As a novice of contractual agreements you don't even realize the importance of owning your own iCone characters.  I'll explain later, my fingers are tired. 

POINT THREE.
a) You  mustn't speak as though your personally prioritized demands and oppinions are everyone elses. They are not.
b) And I'm afraid we don't appreciate your derogatory remarks that infer that because of "unrealistic elements" and "unbelievability" our work is therefore some how degraded and inferior and their leaving impression is tainted in some way because of elements that, really in truth, are overlooked by our audiences.
c) And if you're in the entertainment field as a self hailing "Pro" which means your employments' main income is from this kind of work, however meagre, surely you would understand the psychologies of oppinion management of the masses and employ even a mediocre degree of strategic tact.... but its missing. 
You aren't our spokesman, and shouldn't assume such extravagant posture.
Rather than trying to help Aknzrdude to understand your perspective, you're trying to beat him into submission. 

 Stop putting words in my mouth too, I never said I was a spokesman, you did.  If you consider constructive critisizm from a pro as derogetory, than that's your view, so speak for yourself, you sound like a self appointed spokesman.   Hows this for strategic tact ...SUBMIT...SUBMIT...SUBMIThttp://www.hash.com/ftp/VM/Hx_animation/evolution_2.html

Rather than accept that others have alternate prioritized understanding of requirements according to their own spheres operations, you're assuming your argument is a "One statement suits all!" declaration.
It makes us feel uncomfortable.

Hay, clean the wax out of your ears, like I told Aknzrdude, I never agreed or disagreed with any itemized priority of the upgrades. Once again, speak for yourself, I'm sure others appreciate my passed on links to help them understand what going on in the realtime revolution and where the technology I am using stands in the history of this.  Whether we realize it or not, accept it or not, we are pioneering roads untraveled.  What we help Reallusion upgrade on will last into the future because realtime has no standard except for the one we pioneer.

If we wanted perfect realism we'd buy video cameras instead and film real people.

3d is far from being perfect, and by far years away from being real, but this lack is what drives the entire field.

 To all forum members, if you are familiar with iClone partical F/X the tool I'm requesting is simular to this in ease of use and can easily be integrated into you're workflow.

Sifr Allah

The Reallusion forum is one of the most relaxed on the web when it comes to rules, but one thing that is very important here is that members are respectful to each other at all times.

Good debate is always welcome here but insulting others just because they don't agree with you is not on. Please refrain from personal remarks when replying to posts. This matter is treated seriously so please take heed.

 

Peter Edwards
Forum Moderator

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