Peter Edwards
Forum Moderator

iClone Daily Blog

Take a look at all the new PS3 game Heavenly Sword http://www.us.playstation.com/heavenlysword/media_video.html?v=16207.  Study how the hair/cloth/ropes/chains movements in every one of these videos brings every scene to life, especially the traditionally drawn animation clips, because this technique is an animation LAW used by the PROS.  Now picture how plain and uninteresting they would be without this effect... kind of like every iClone film on the net so far.  My fellow forum community users can't you see that this is the snap that your film productions are missing.  So take it from an animation pro..."You need this effect controller".  So please vote in the iClone Wishful Features poll in favor of this tool, or reply as to why or ?..why not..?

Sifr Allah

Hear hear!!!

What s STUNNING set of features on 3 ..... my nights can't get any later, I'm already into tommorow as it is. Character carrying Character is just amazing.  I have waited for that impatiently. Thi-Mai would send her gratitude but she's a bad tempered little cow and probably won't like being grabbed anyway!!!!!

My theoretical suggestion....
Is it very complex to add, along with an editeable motionpath as already seen for lighting to move about, a SEMI-RANDOM-FIXED point that moves in quick flicks about a chosen point but only slightly.
That is... have, say, 1 light for the fire that simply moves about no more than a flame would on a bonfire but that allowed the shadows to jump about like a fire would  do.
Where a candle is lighting the face, it would be amazing if we could choose a kind of fixed "path" for that light to hop about randomly AROUND its point of origin as its axis so that the light would then give an amazing effect of flickering illuminating flame.

I hope this makes sense. If a light could be made to hop about randomly but slightly. We've got superb flame and fire input... this would be their output.

(Siouxie.)

W.I.P. "Medieval Chinese Painting Exhibition" over 6 sets.
iCloneTutorials.com
No Imagination, no comment!

"- point taken about south park being 2d, but i look back at other 3d shows such as reboot, luxo, toy story - the fact that thier hair moves or thier cloths sway do not overcome the great story and facial animation."

 And what do you actually know about a great story. A lot of technical work goes into a great story starting with a ------??? Lest not forget the basics, general phycology states that the primal nature of all creatures are instinctively attracted to and/or distracted by light, color and movement. Facial animation is the last process in the animation process, not the only process, and this is because the face relates a lot of personal detail to the viewer as to the particular emotion that character is feeling, but it is by far not the only reliance to carry a story.  Secondary subttlties gives the viewer something to look at besides the well animated face which by the way is automaticly animated by iClone, and when used with another principle called cinematography, these effects can actually lead a viewer through the narrative piece.  A great example is the link I posted to the Heavenly Sword video page when the trailer starts the first thing you see isn't the characters face but look at what grabs and holds the viewers attention until the character actually shows her face.

"To me if i had to pay $5 extra for the movie ticket to see those things, versus paying $5 extra to see a great story, the great story wins every time."

What theater do you know of that ups the ticket price $5 based on the amount of special effects in the movie?  If this was the case a ticket to Star Wars would have cost a $1,000,000(MILLION)dollars.

"when you say dynamics do you mean - inverse kinematics coupled with collision detection and physics? While helpful, i am one who thinks it is not necessarily that important to creating compelling videos - Ik, facial, ragdoll physics and camera animation to me is much more important."

sorry to inform you, but ragdoll physics falls under the category of physics, dynamic physics , that is; and in certain cases IK, facial(stop being cheap and purchase Crazy Talk 4 by Reallusion),and camera animation, if a helper or gizmo is applied to them they too can be dynamicly altered.

"If the upgrade cost $50 and i had to choose between those features you mentioned and others, your list will be of less importance to some other features i look for"

What other features in the Wishful Features section is not in the next iClone upgrade except for the one I speak of.  The ones you have mentioned are already confirmed they have no debatable relavence?

"As one who is not in "the know" like you, i luckily can read and your post stated dynamic cloth and hair - that is what i am arguing is not as important to me, not ik, ragdoll as applied to characters which by the way, can be simulated by the use of a number of mocap, bvh files as well as the motion editor in iClone - it is not perfect but it suits me fine. collision detection can be simulated through the use of timeline - again not perfect but workable."

Well what  mocap BVH files do you use to simulate the animation of things like whips, chains, ropes, wires, cables, ect.,  flowing hair, capes, drapes, flags ect., in iClone.  As far as I've seen so far, it's non-existant. Except for the flowing cape of the V1.0 knight , but the iClone program won't let you dynamicly alter the permitters. The program that the cape animation was originally created in was made using this feature. The feature I speak of can easily be integrated into the Special F/X icon tool where it is usually located in all of the other major 3-D applications similar to partical F/X. The features you speak of(Ik, facial, ragdoll physics ) as you stated: "ik, ragdoll as applied to characters which by the way, can be simulated by the use of a number of mocap, bvh files as well as the motion editor in iClone - it is not perfect but it suits me fine. collision detection can be simulated through the use of timeline - again not perfect but workable."can be simulated so it's existent already in iClone, it's just not refined and streamlined for productivity workflow.

If this feature isn't in iClone 3, it'll eventually end up in iClone 4, 5, or 6, if iClone wants to be competitive in the commercial arena and rise above the underground to make realtime animation a viable emerging mainstream media.  There is a standard animation diagram that illustrates the process of key frame and in-between frames for the physically correct animation of anything that has a dynamicly flowing characteristic.  All formally trained animators have base principles of these etched in their brains, but to save less skilled individuals the homework, a feature can be added to iClone to automate all of these processes, but you probably didn't know that.  As it goes to show technology can't replace skill and training, technology is just a tool to aid it or maybe enhance such skills, or lack thereof.  I hope my flawed logic and waving my 10 years of formal training was insightful and enlightening to all who read it, especially aknzrdud, who has stated in more lines than one that he wants to argue, I prefer to debate on an objective in search of a resolution not to argue about features already confirmed as included in the next iClone.  

Sifr Allah

You said, I said

 "you are mixing up story with technique - the features you mention are not as important in telling a story generally."

You obviously don't know that there is a technique to writing a story, theme, antagonist, protagonist, conflict, resolution.  What I'm referring to is visually pleasing compositions  that actually can be defined as realtime, and these features will aid in this other form of story telling.

 "To me if i had to pay $5 extra for the movie ticket to see those things, versus paying $5 extra to see a great story, the great story wins every time."  

You're the one who brought up story  v.s. special f/x in the first place, but no feature you ask for will effect storytelling skills.  Finally the only way iClone will advance is mainly based on us, the user response, so if you have an idea for an iClone improvement, I suggest you take a poll or start a topic about you're ideas and stop ridin' mine, atleast I have an idea.  Oh and by the way all the ideas you've come up with and any idea you may come up with in the future will probably be derived from a pro 3-d application, so in essence you have the potential to be a pro in an emerging media such as iClone.... has anybody seen the new Game Stop commercials made using machinima style animation yet.  Machinima as a viable media format has finally recieved the mainstream breakthrough it has needed to be taken seriously as an emerging art form in the entertainment media industry, and guess who that helps....YOU. 

  "you seem to be thinking iClone should be in the pro space - it may end up there but it's market started out with the novice animator and that is it\s installed based right now so that is where your sales pitch should be directed. So far you\ve spouted a lot of technical jargon without talking to the novice user"

Weather you like it or not iClone is a commercial application that teaches the novice pro techniques.  Any idea can only improve this, so don't stagnate your applications inevitable advancement.  iClone is the industry first realtime cinematic animation application, meaning it has no predecessor(none before it) so why not take the tools that make the other 3d apps streamlined productivity workflow(how easily and quickly the app allows you to achieve the result you want) so attractive, and and put them in iClone.  I'm not saying that any one feature is more important than the other, as you seem to be arguing, what I'm saying is that this feature is needed for iClones advancement as a contender in the markets it's intended for.

3D Character Animation for: Machinima | Video Editing | Web Design | Mobile Phones Games & Comics | Instructional Training

 Which has not been specifically defined as novice, because up until now the only realtime cinematics could only be found in video game engines.  Just because iClones underlaying technology is based on a technology who's marketbase is mainly geared towards preteen boys, does not mean that iClone should be pigeonholed into the same category.  Just because it's easy to use and easily accessible, you underestimate the potential of this groundbreaking app.  iClone is not a toy(it cost the same as any standard pro office program), it's a pioneering innovation that will only continue to evolve, even if the novice refuses to.  The heading above clearly states:

Reallusion values your every comment about iClone.
Your suggestions have been collected for our product roadmap as below.
Please go through the available features here, and request for your new idea.
This table will grow regularly according to your efforts. 

So vote for new features, all new features, no one feature is more important than the other when none exist and they all make your job easier.



  

Sifr Allah