1. My apologies to all whom I might have hurt by my comments unintentionally or intentionally by getting inflamed. Not the least, I offer my public apologies to Mike, who I think is an outstanding and fine creator, a friend, and a man with his own way of representing things. None of us are without defects, and me least of all. I recognize this.

2. I will provide my service of trying to create likenesses for creators of characters in cases where it will be legal.

3.It would have been better if instead of offering this service separately through my own outlet, the service could have been offered to their end users by groups and companies  who regulary create characters, so that I could have been relieved of what is legal or not. And simply worked according to orders and delivered them.

So, if somebody came up to me with C4G3 and wanted me to build a likeness, I would say, it will be done, but come through Mike. And Mike could have said to his consumers while selling his stuff, that if you want to create obj similarities of your work that you created by altering the shape of my work, then I provide the service, and retain my discretionary rights to accept or reject, so send the file to me.

4. Whether this could be done will depend upon the cooperation of the developers or help of Reallusion. Without the cooperation or help, I will have to keep my doors open and deal on case to case basis. If developers help me, I can deal only with developers and close my doors to the general public.

What say you?

Cloner's Cafe

Sounds like most will come to agree with you. Being that "Money" is the Name of the Game, it will be interesting to see how much the cost will be, if you join with developers! As everyone will deservingly want a piece of the pie!

Personally, I'd rather see the price 'Stay Low' and see you 'Go For What You Know'.

Kind Regards,

sw00000p

I was waiting for this Tsunami to calm down! 

To me it is quite obvious the whole idea of "creating lookalikes" is at the most, a vertical offer, suitable only for true Content Texture Developers who might need to produce their creations in other formats.  Exactly as the case presented by Alley.

I do feel Surajit lost his mood, resorting to convolved text just to keep his arguments valid.  No need to apologize, Surajit.  I was not offended but kind of sad, reading you felt I was accusing you of anything wrong.  I just stated clearly:    I would not like to see any replication of my products, without my clearly expressed consent!    I just supposed other developers would feel the same. 

I am a methodical person so I would resume this turmoil this way:

- The whole proposition fo "replicating" is dangerous!

- Only CCDs (mainly texture designers) could require this service.

- Plain iClone users are out of scope and cannot replicate a thing. <Just make videos.

- Mesh developers don't need it at all, being capable of doing it themselves.

- Textures belong to the Texture Artist and would be required to create a lookalike.

- Users wanting to work with other programs cannot use iClone or it's powers, yet!

- A multi platform series of characters is a good idea!  I make a note on it! 

- "Nothing new comes out of the old".  (Einstein) 

Can we stop this now?

Mike

Mike Aparicio  Reallusion Certified Content Developer Really Certified     

Last night my family and I ate dinner with my 'Pops old college buddy. He's in town working on a case. He's been a coporarte lawyer for 15 years. As the converstaion rolled around to me, I asked for some advise pertaining to the service your offering. As I was explaing the details, he abruptly interrupted me stating, "Let me see the contract!"

After dinner, off to RL we go. Perusing the RL User Agreement and Revised EULA, he said this is very simple. He said in the Corporate World:

"You Don't Own Anything, Unless You Have A Copyright!"

"Nearly every Invention known to Man has been copied and manipulated in one form or another." It's New presentation is what deems it's Legality! 

"In a Royalty-Free inviornment... Oil an Water Don't Mix!" "Either you have a copyright or you dont!"

From this I gather MORALLY and ETHICALLY the (Look-A-Like) service can be seen as Wrong!

I'm just trying to learn something here! I then asked....

If you create a 'TEXTURE' and present it on a ROYALTY-FREE site... WHERE'S THE COPYRIGHT?

He laughed, really hard Too!

RL Copyright Protected... YES

ALL OTHERS in a Royalty-Free Inviornment..."Morally and Ethically" YES

___________________________________________________________________________

His Advise To You Sarajit:

When the RL Team DECIDED AGAINST certain plug-ins, did they ask for Forum Opinion?

Don't waste your time posting this idea here!

Look-A-Likes For Sell - CREATE NOTHING AT FIRST!   LET THE SEVICE SELL IT'S SELF!  Once established, incorporate your Originals and go from there! SLOWLY ease into selling Look-A-Likes!

Create A Clause that 100% releases you of ANY and ALL liability and responsibility! Then, Reap the rewards of your new service.

sw00000p

I received your private message. Sir, my intentions are to Openly share what I've learned on this matter so that we all may learn what is "Mis-Conception" and what is "Fact."

Sharing Openly is as far as I go! I've got myself in enough 'Hot Water' from my own comments!

sw00000p

1. My services remain.

2.Re-creation of characters would be done only for developers and on their behalf when other parties come through a developer who is creator of the character. Any developer who wishes my services can contact me by mailing me through forum mail.

However, for this the concerned developer would need to observe the legalities and obtain necessary permissions from concerned parties including Reallusion, for I will just be providing a service, not for my own use but for the use of the concerned developer.

3. My charges, when the re-creation is for personal use for the purpose of preserving characters in separate format and for benefit of animation by individual creator-animator, will be $25 per character, and that is as low as I can go, considering the terrible hard work involved.

Contrary to Mike's idea, I can not use the textures even of the creator, since in a different software, and new mesh, the uvmapping also changes and new textures similar in color, look, and appearance need to be created.

Alley was fully able to understand my intentions and limitations. That is why she provided me a full colored sketch of her character as she intended to be represented. That is of more use to me than original textures for which I have no use. Now when I give back her character, Pinhead will be able to flex biceps.

4. Separate contracts, terms, and permissions including third-party permissions and restrictions will need to be observed if the client intends commercial distribution of his or her character re-created by me.

6. I can accept only limited number of orders and also for limited time since this is basically to fill in the gaps in time for my new employees in starting up my small business.

The focus of my actual business is neither on the Reallusion Market, nor on the 3d industry in general but to develop graphic magazines for children. However, to succeed, I need support of artist communities, need to use 3d software and content, and need to employ skilled artists and use their time fruitfully.

So, I will try to help as many artist communities as possible within my means, but I started with the Reallusion community, for after spending great amounts of money for research and development and going broke for some time, I am convinced that of all the software purchased by me and experimented with, Reallusion's iClone holds the greatest potential both for the present and the near future.

What I offer is for help and developing relations, not to hurt anybody's business interests for that would be contrary to my own interests.

Regards

Surajit

PS: Mr sw0000p, my rewards are in positive relations, and if I can't reap those rewards any given course of action for me will be ineffective.

I like to empower the lay user because that increases the number of relations and also resources. If it is not to be, then it is not to be, I will offer my services to those whom I can.

If something is morally and ethically wrong but legally correct, that is a course of action I would avoid by my natural inclination.

However, if something is morally and ethically correct but wrong according to present law, I will try incessantly to change the law or find workarounds. Morality and ethics count more to me than foolish laws.

I pmd you principally to learn the extent and implications about the morality and ethical angle that you mentioned, and I did not want to weigh this thread further with such discussions that can be well made in private.

You see, laws are not central to my existence, they change every year or periodically to accomodate reality. However, morality and ethics are central to my existence and without them I would cease to be what I am and lose my identity. My conscience is the costliest luxury that I afford and continue to cling on to even with great material losses.

Regards for your kind words and open spirit

Surajit

Cloner's Cafe