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| | I'm not sure everyone was pressurising RL to release IC4. There was a lot of comment on the forum along the lines of “rather wait till it's ready”. I used the word “contempt” to describe the way I felt I had been treated when RL postponed the promoted September release of IC4. I was, however, very careful to point out that this was because RL must have known that the product would not be ready to release in that time period but didn't think they needed to tell their customers. A very serious lapse of common decency and courtesy in my opinion. Am I wrong to expect a little honesty and respect from a company I patronise? If RL had said in early September that IC4 will not now be released until the new year then so be it. After all their parade of teaser vid hype this would be disappointing but at least customers would feel informed of the situation and be able to revise their project plans accordingly.
Describing the current situation as a “glitch” does little to hide the fact that there is and has been a serious long term problem when buying RL products. The forum has for a considerable time carried many,many examples of both new and more experienced customers who have problems installing programs and content because of failures or rejections by the registration system. I have experienced this a number of times myself both with store packs and the usually more reliable backstage items. I have reported problems to support providing all additional information requested. I have exercised patience and in time the individual issues have been resolved satisfactorily…..but the general overall problem continues. RL cannot avoid the fact that the registration system they use is neither sufficiently reliable, adaptable or customer friendly to warrant it's continuation in its present form. RL have no right to expect customer confidence or support until this intensely frustrating system is replaced with something that works simply and consistently. We need access to use the products we purchased in good faith. Patience is indeed a virtue but not one to be abused by default. RL should acknowledge that positive corrective action is necessary and take it.
There can be few who will deny that RL developers produce the most remarkable creative cutting edge software for us all to enjoy. How sad then, that too often, customers feel the company treats them as their own avatars, simple to manipulate, easy to put on hold until required. I find no contradiction in using the forum to try to honestly report both the pleasures and pains of being a Reallusion customer. Geoff. |
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Tutor
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| Hi Geoff, I read what you say and have to be understanding regarding the way you think of technologies and etc associated products.
Personally I think the iClone issues are way way blown out of proportion. I am happy th software has been launched early. From a practical stance and on an intellectually evaluated judgemental angle I think the Reallusion Team have produced way more than enough "additionals" to version 4 comparitively to v 3 and it's an oddity that so much sulking negative is misproportionally blasted out regarding their product and the degree of functionality with it.
What I seem to firmly believe more and more regarding this software is that
1. the ones who deliberately do their utmost to put people off buying it by whining incessantly about iClones follow on patches;
2. who continually grind that same old same old axe of "it doesnt work, wahhhh!";
3. who harp on about the little corners that need polishing rather than utilise to good effect and personal education the massive achievements of the new elements that do run smothly;
4. who ineffectively smear the reputation of the product (that otherwise is making colossal leaps forwards faster than the competition, ) because their abilities with it render them unable to make personal advancements with their work due to lack of application;
5. who are not prepared to enjoy early released software and take ADVANTAGE of the working elements v. the ones that need fine tuning because of the non universal elements of computer world differences,
are the ones who are least productive NOT because of the softwares element of enormity that they cannot see the bigger picture of, but because they are totally unable to visualise an end result with the many functions and large number of perfectly working sections rendered correctly useable by the software in the early stages of its latest evolutionary status.
Using the brain and making an evaluation of the situation, USE THE PREVIOUS VERSION.
In exactly the same way as PHPBB developers (Yes, I am one of those too.) do.
I look at the dross and crap on the national TV, flat boring Hanabarbara cartooning. Its national and making someone millions.
Version TWO iClone beats this.
If your works storyline sucks, and its implementation is ineffective and weak, theres no way a glittery tree with little sparkles on will save your a s s anyway.
As a seasoned iClone user, like the many others...... we take the product, report the failings, appreciate that Reallusion isn't a seven hundred manned team of international developers, and we use what runs, and report what doesn't.
WHAT ELSE REALLY HACKS ME OFF is that most of the things the newcomers are whining about are things WE THE SEASONED USERS who were here since v 1 ASKED for personally from Reallusion who then wrote into the software our demands for our clients demands. NOT as some add on toy to play with at the outset, but as a tool for majority use and in some cases for a financial end. This product has been developed at the speed according to the demands of the current and most frequent users imaginations according to their workloads. Our Imagination as well. Our demands from our practices. Shygirl, Duchess, Rknsrdude, Ally, Raven2Angel, cricky and on and on and on......
Everyone benefits in the long term, but the demands are what's been worked on from majority 'super-user' request and you're all kicking people in the face who are on the same side of the fence as yourselves you know. That's not good.
We ALL suffer bits that need polish. But isnt it odd how the rest of us just "get on with it" and STILL produce and STILL output and STILL create and teach and learn and wriggle and weave our way round glitchy bits and STILL submit work to YouTube and still help those who are new nd bring them up and on and make freebies and give them a way to save a penny here and there.............
I approve wholeheartedly Reallusions early releases.
BECAUSE? Because I can use the new that works and appear more appetising to potential clients earlier and faster that the rest and fatten my bank faster.
Waiting another 6 months for something to get fixed for someone elses specifications even though it ran OK on mine isn't beneficial to me.
SUMMARY?
In summary, I would rather see more thought out responsive intellectuality regarding iClone assessment. I know frustration. I have been there.
But, keep the price of the software down by encouraging others to buy not avoid it, increasing the finances for those who develop the tool you purchased and thereby employ more staff to debug it faster for everyone.
In the mean time maybe you could discuss your storylines, theories on plot and character development etc... and put to better use your fingers workouts on the keyboard ready for when the company add a higher degree of universatility to iClone. You might learn who the key players are, who does what, who can better help you and play ally in your own personal movie quest.
Or you can walk about with your foot in your mouth.
It's a long post but I use short words.
CLICK HERE TO SEE FULL SIZE!
W.I.P. "Medieval Chinese Painting Exhibition" over 6 sets.
iCloneTutorials.com
No Imagination, no comment! |
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Tutor
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| "We ALL suffer bits that need polish. But isnt it odd how the rest of us just "get on with it" and STILL produce and STILL output and STILL create and teach and learn and wriggle and weave our way round glitchy bits and STILL submit work to YouTube and still help those who are new nd bring them up and on and make freebies and give them a way to save a penny here and there............."
Armstrong you speak truth to power - i too got caught up in frustration - no not with the little issues here and there, can't edit face, move heads, etc.. my frustration was about 50 or so scenes i've setup in iC3 cannot open i iC4 - these are all scenes for a movie I've trying to get out by end of October - so i voiced that out loud.
But today changed my mood - first i spent the better half of the day with my car which broke down whilst i was in the freeway - after 7 hours, got back in my driveway, not working and part i needed will take 4 days to arrive - so while i moaned and complained that i needed to use the car tomorrow -it is what it is - i can moan all day but the part will not walk to my house
so given that and your words made me realize that there is no use complaining - inform RL of the problem and let them do thier work, repeating it 100 times will not solve the problem - and also there are other avenues out there -if i really needed to get somewhere i can rent a car, likewise i can use iC3, or i can try to rebuild my projects from scratch with iC4. Me moaning all day today and tomorrow will not make my projects open on Sunday evening. However if i start building from scratch now, i can render out 2-4 projects by Sunday evening
but of course for those that cannot activate iC4 - well if the project needed to get out, you can always use iC3
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| Thomsongeoff,Armstrong,aknzrdude and many others have made well thought out and intelligent comments. I'm assuming (and we all know how dangerous that is) Armstrong,aknzrdude and others with positive outlooks in regard to this current snafu have had a chance to look under the hood of iC4. Got to get a little of their monies worth, took it for a spin enjoyed themselves and are content. You've opened and played with your x mas present but gotta go to bed.
Others like myself and again "assuming" Thomsongeoff, bought the present and there's nothing under the tree. I have little problem waiting 2 even 3 weeks for a delivery, but I was misled.
Pay for it - Download it - Install it - and enjoy,
that was what was expected. The program is great, the authors are a great group of people doing fantastic work. The business end of the company needs some tweaking. IClone is one of my top 10 programs of all time ...... my time goes back to tape drives and the great big old floppies so that's quite an accolade.
I look forward to having a chance to use iC4 , mostly I look forward to when iC5 comes out having a problem free purchase and delivery experience |
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| Now I am in soup! I agree with all of the 4 posts above though they seem to contradict each other apparently.
Cloner's Cafe |
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| | Whilst the shade of opinions may differ it is quite obvious that all posts to this thread have been made by those who greatly admire the amazing opportunities which IClone offers them. In the way a painter respects his brushes or a musician his instrument , as creative people, we too highly value the software which facilitates our expression. As resourceful people we can revise, adapt and amend as circumstances require. There is an intimate bond between artisan and tool. It should not, however, prevent us from expressing our concerns when we experience problems or highlight barriers which hamper our use and access. I believe honest communication, both the bouquets and brickbats , is a healthy and essential ingredient of the constructive process. Thank you to all who have taken the time and trouble to share their thoughts in this thread. Geoff. A man’s reach should exceed his grasp, or what’s a Heaven for? Robert Browning |
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| | Im sure some people would like the forum to do nothing more than sing the praises of Iclone and RL ( and there is a lot to praise ) but when stuff isn't right or does not work as expected ( and paid for ) the forum is a good place to bring these issues to light. "IClone is one of my top 10 programs of all time ...... my time goes back to tape drives and the great big old floppies so that's quite an accolade." I started with 3d 20 years ago with a program called 3D construction kit and could only dream of a program like Iclone. |
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Tutor
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| i think it is absolutely necessary to highlight problems and issues and get it out in the open
but i think the point being made here is that once you've made your point - give the vendor a chance to act on it - repeating something 100 times does not always make the fix come faster
so once you've highlighted it and made RL aware, its good -
the point i was making in my response was the problem not necessarily a showstopper for all - sure i couldn't load my projects but it does not mean i cannot work on something else
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