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Newbie
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Last Login: 10/15/2009 2:21:03 PM
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| | I've been testing out iClone3 for some time now and feel very disappointed that it doesn't come with a more complete help system. Yes, iClone3 is a very powerful piece of software: it has an arsenal of features that would be very useful if one knew how to use them properly. I say if you are going to make a feature available to a creator (i.e. bounce), then you should at the very least, document how to use it clearly (step-by-step). To me it is very frustrating when it takes a day, a week, or more to figure out how to implement one feature correctly. And the reason why it takes so long is, because the feature is not clearly documented on its use. Even when you have a video showing how to do something, I find it hard to understand. I'd rather read help text that explains clearly how to make use of a feature (from setup to video production). Maybe it is just me, but I think not. If you expect creative individuals, like myself, to create a full length movie with iClone3, then something needs to be done about the help system. Videos are not good enough. Look at Microsoft products for example. I enjoy using products by Microsoft, because I know that when I am not sure of how something works (a feature or function or whatever) I can almost always find detailed help using the help that comes with the product (it's not just on their website it's within a help file). iClone3 and beyond would be done justice if you would only make it easier to find the right help at the time it is needed. Look, it is hard enough to create a movie, a commercial, a whatever without having things slowing up the design process. Putting a feature in and having very limited documentation (if any) on that feature, makes it that much harder (and frustrating) to create. If you say that iClone3 is only limited by ones imagination, then make that so. I don't seem to agree that it is limited by your imagination. Because, if it is TOO difficult to make what you have within your imagination, then what good is it? It's not. Some things are very intuitive like adding a scene or background and that's great. But, when it comes time to doing the more difficult things like animation, this is where iClone falls short. Anyone can figure out the simple things. And BFD to that. Thanks. But it is not the simple things that I'm after. There are complex scenes that I want to create and what I'm saying is that it would be nice if when I need help, it would not take such a long time to get it. The forum is a good idea, but even that could take a day or more to get a response. I don't complain about things often. But when I do, there is good reason for it. I want to purchase iClone3 so badly and be on my merry way with the creative process. But I'm held up with my decision to move forward, because of the lack of documentation. It's great that you folks have created such a beast of a product. And it's great that you are profiting from it. But, someone has to think about the people that are using the product. The ease of use is the issue here, not what the product has to offer. I could go on, but I won't. You get the point. Enough said. Steve 
"If it's not fun why do it?"  |
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Veteran
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| Steve,
Not sure if you have this pdf already, but it may help. Let me know if you got it, I'll be deleting it from this post so not to hog up my allotted attachment space.
-Oliver
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Tutor
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| inetsfr (8/25/2009)
I've been testing out iClone3 for some time now and feel very disappointed that it doesn't come with a more complete help system. Hi Steve, Thanks for taking the time to express your feelings about the help offered with iClone3. Your points are well made and will be reviewed by the iClone team. We appreciate the feedback very much. By the way the iClone3 manuals are also available from the link below if you need it. http://www.reallusion.com/iclone/ic_training_manual.htm Thanks again.
Peter Edwards
Forum Moderator iClone Daily Blog |
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| | | Veteran
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| | I have read through the iCLone manuals, over and over again, and while they're informative, they are only informative in the context of learning what an option or tool does. Not so much how to use it, and even more helpful would be information on what type of uses said option or feature could be used for, with some step by step examples of actually using it. It's more of a reference as opposed to a user guide. Understanding what a feature is isn't quite the same as understanding how and why to use such a feature... |
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Tutor
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| what might be helpful is for one to make a production diary- ' the making of a movie' or even the making of a scene that captures the work process.
would this be helpful?
I might try to this for the current movie i am working on -
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| | | Junior Member
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| | HI´m also a newby and have exactly the same opinion. Such a marvellous tool should be much more documented..if a creative person knows the technique to achieve something, then it will make movies that, in return, will interest many other on doing the same. So, Reallusion, work on teaching people well and the investment will pay off, i´m shure. Please give us more and much better tutorials. How about teaming up with Lynda.com and make a complete tutorial on iclone? Just and idea. Also i would like this chance to ask something: What´s happening to iclone community?
Let me explain myself: Altough i´m a newby, i have been working with other tools like Moviestorm and i even plyed around with a previous version of iclone some years ago...and i notice that some great websites on iclone are not active anymore. Even the oficial blog has no new posts since june. Iclone certified training has nothing new since May ithink, and even in here, the official foruns, there´s not so much of activity. Maybe less than 10 posts a day (i just started coming here regularly maybe a week ago and i might be wrong because this is holiday season). And all this less than a month to a new version of iclone...is this natural? |
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Newbie
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| aknzrdude (8/26/2009)
what might be helpful is for one to make a production diary- ' the making of a movie' or even the making of a scene that captures the work process.
would this be helpful?
I might try to this for the current movie i am working on -Hi all, Thanks for all your responses. It's nice to know, sort of, that I'm not the only one that's in this boat. And yes aknzrdude, it would be helpful to create a production diary that will help people like myself. With the coming of iClone4, we are all going to need help to make great use of it. I happened to get a sneak peak of iClone4 and let me tell you, it looks AWESOME. But, I kind of fear the lack of a help file there as well. Maybe our voices will be heard and someone at reallusion will get the ball rolling to hire the proper people whose sole job is just to create product documentation. I know this will require more money on reallusions part. But in my eyes, this will be well worth it for everybody concerned. Happy endeavors  , Steve
"If it's not fun why do it?" |
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Tutor
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| inetsfr (8/25/2009)
. . . Some things are very intuitive like adding a scene or background and that's great. But, when it comes time to doing the more difficult things like animation, this is where iClone falls short (on ease of use) . . .
Animation, if I read you correctly, is the core of your concerns about ease of use (as well it should be).
Maybe it would help if RL were more straightforward about not only about the fundamental design of iClone, but also how the iClone business model enters into this.
I haven't worked with the pro animation packages such as 3DS Max, but I assume that when you open up the timeline, you see this spaghetti tangle of motion curves for all the joints. My guess is that RL chose to avoid this by simply collapsing all this data into little black boxes that can't be opened by the user. I hope I'm correct in saying that the iClone motion clips are a sequence of black-box keyframes like this.
My biggest problem with iClone is that if I use the motion editor to set a custom key frame for any given one joint, the setting is completely forgotten on the very next frame, and I don't have any way to propagate that change forward except to try to hand-tweak each successive frame. This procedure isn't working very well for me.
Now, what does work nicely, I've learned, is iClone's feature for cutting and blending a motion clip. What I have been doing, and what I suspect other people have been doing, is to scrounge around for enough varied motion clips to tell my story. That means the Content Store, or, failing that, some kind of BVH from elsewhere that can be converted into iClone's own BVH dialect.
Which brings us to RL's business model. It's the classic razor+blades model. They sell us an incredibly capable 3D animation system at a low price and make up for it by selling animation content. Some people may have a philosophical objection to that. Fine. Save your pennies for a thousand years and buy Maya, or burn out your brain cells using freeware such as Blender. But the regulars around these parts are pretty happy with the system.
I've asked for better motion editing in iClone 4, and rumor has it there will be. Keep your eyeballs peeled.
Finally, I see little signs that the marketplace for mocap may be on the verge of rapid expansion. Maybe as a result, 2010 will be an animator's paradise. |
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Senior Member
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| | YES it would be a big help for os newbees aknzrdude. By the way, i enjoyed your great work and hope i could make some simular stuf one day. |
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| | | Veteran
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| | DITTO, as stated many times before, a project oriented tutorial is needed. |
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