I would like to contribute more, and in a constructive fashion!

I don't think the third party stores, selling iClone components, have done ANYTHING irregular so far.   It is just Reallusions logical new policy to better regulate the quality and price on any items claiming to be compatible and suitable to be used with iClone.

Reallusion certification is understandable and desirable.   Stating and ruling that ALL products developed by means of their tools, should be certified and submitted to Reallusion store on the first place, is a clear right for R.L., as permanent owners of the tools involved.

Reallusion is entitled to derive benefits from their tools usage!    But I also think, R.L. should take into consideration the efforts taken by other online stores, to create attractive sites and their own efforts into producing content, by means of RL tool usage.

This means to me, there should be a process to allow this stores to become shelf extensions of the main store.  there should be flexibility to accept submissions by such developers, and include them in the common BIG R.L shelf!

Of course all RL shelf extension stores should also agree on selling other developers items and most important, to accept a uniform pricing policy.   Competition between stores should be by providing Customers with the best backup service, help and support, together with prompt response.   Not by price competition, as all the products will be available at ALL stores!

If this can be accomplished, together with the No Royalty policy I can envision a great potential to the Reallusion venture and a guaranteed success!

Mike Aparicio

Mike Aparicio-Reallusion Certified Innovative Content Developer

Repackaging products for the Reallusion storefront makes perfect sense. For example, if people want to buy only one Skintight character Cloth, they can go on the CoolCreator storefront. Alternatively,  there could be a larger package available on the Reallusion storefront for those who want to buy a complete suite of Skintight Character Cloths. Pricing would be such that you get volume discount when you buy the entire suite of Characters.

Reallusion would get their sales commissions and the CCD would get the additional exposure that he would not get otherwise. iClone users that do not want to spend for an entire series of characters would go to the third party store. Those who don't mind spending the additional money would buy the larger pack on the Reallusion storefront.

Furthermore, you could even sell the same packages on both storefronts and have special business agreements in place for both entities to provide commissions to the sale initiator etc.

Ultimately, all of the above contribute to promoting the sale of iClone Licences.

There are many ways to build up a win-win scenario between two different entities when you have quality products and this is what CCD shall be seeking.

Cheers.

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Hi Reallusion,
I have another question, do we have to sell stuff using the "content store" if we create models on other packages (sketchup for example) and import them using exchange?
Because here is me concern, and I mentioned this before, I can understand people having to pay 50% of their income to you, if they are using your tools and models to make money, but is "extremely unfair" for the people that created 100% original content and all they are doing is converting the files to a format that makes it iclone compatible. Can you please clarify this point for me.

Thank you,

Stuckon3d



Product Specialist

My iClone 7 gallery

My IMDB

May I just chip in here

Obviously I'm all for developers and CCD content makers getting everything they deserve and I for one have spent good money buying their stuff and will continue to do so.

However, my only concern regarding the Reallusion content store has been a bone of contention with me for some time now and dosen't seem to be going away.  The problem centers around "Element 5", I have no idea how you buy products in other countries but in the UK, we have to through "Element 5".

Now due to the fact this company is based in Germany we in the UK, MUST pay the VAT rate of the residing company, so we pay 19% VAT.  Even if the pound was doing fantastically well against the dollar, after the exchange rate is done, we then get screwed for another 19%.

Now I don't mind paying VAT but at least let us pay our own rate which is 15% in the UK.

Now if I go to Cool Clones, Clones2Go or any other independent store, I pay directly to these sites and just pay the exchange rate.  So for example a pack for $20 is all I pay, but if I bought the exact same product off RL's store I would have to pay $23.

As you can imagine the more expensive the item the worst the situation gets.

My answer would be, let us buy direct from Reallusion and not have to go through "Element 5".  We want to use good money to buy good content but not pay the German government for the pleasure.

Just my thoughts

Cape!

___________________________________________________________

Score Variations

Capemedia UK Limited's Website

The CCD Agreement is specifically referring to content created with the CCD Developer tools such as the 3DS Max Plugin and the Max Avatar Templates. It is this content which must be sold through the Reallusion Content Store.

If you create content in Sketchup or any other 3D program and it doesn't use any of the developer tools then this won't be affected by the new agreement.

Hope this helps.

                                                                

Peter
Forum Administrator

www.reallusion.com

Mr Edwards

I create everything myself, mesh, texture the lot. The only thing used is the Plug-in to get it to .vns format.  I will not accept that I can't sell what I have done at my own store and if this is a problem to RL, I believe that they should use .OBJ or any other format so we are not dependant of their so called tools.  On the other hand, if they pay me for all time I am spending to setup all the things I create, they can gladly start demanding what they want.  Also, if I conntinue to create content for iClone they have a much broader market of people that want european looking things NOT US. So in this manner I do promote them 100%.

Gorz

  White Tiger Web Shop is not active anylonger, I don't have the time..             

Taken as stated, it means I cannot sell my stuff on the CoolCreator Online Store unless I get written permission from Reallusion... The same applies to the ClonesToGo online store and White Tiger...

Where and How can I get such permission?

Is it automatically granted for developers that joined CCD Prior to this Rule being applied?

Pleae advice. 

Thanks.

Come and visit my store by clicking on the banner below.

It's me again!

I am sure CloneBot Zack is reading all this, so let's be constructive.

Clearly, Peter Edwards explains which are the products subject to the regulation.  Those derived from the 3D plugins and corresponding templates.

If you are a 3D developer-modeler working with MAX or Maya, and do not want to be included in the restriction, this is what you can do:

Export your stuff in a format 3Dxchange can read.   Then you avoid using the plugins altogether.   Of course, standard characters will not be easy to create without using the template, but it can be done.

If you are good enough, you can make animatable characters, and not need to export them directly as .VNS stuff.   

I don't think we are going to change RL policy regarding usage of their tools.  What we can do is look at other creative possibilities.    One idea is R.L.  Could sell licenses to use tools for out of house releases.

But the main thing, I am sure about is:   Fairness in business guarantees long term successful relationships!

Right?

Mike

Mike Aparicio-Reallusion Certified Innovative Content Developer

Yep, I was reading all of this. So it's my turn to dive in

Ok, the issues I saw were as follows

• A bit of confusion about tools and compensation
• Permission to sale on their own sites
• sharing shelf space
• Cheaper prices compared to Reallusion Content Store
• What changed?!

Confusion

As stated in the contract:
DEVELOPERS submit their ready-for-market content to Reallusion and if the ready-for-market content is indeed certified as a Reallusion content add-on pack then DEVELOPERS content will be posted for sale for a commission of 50% of net sales of content.

Commission has nothing to do with the tools you use. Our tools exist to help you develop using outside resources and tools such as 3DS Max, Sketchup, Photoshop, crayons and/or finger painting... anything that you use for development. The commission is profit-sharing, not a license fee nor a penalty for using our tools. If you wish to access our market place with access to approximately 800,000+ customers spanning education, animation, video producers, across many, many countries on this planet (though we have considered doing business with Martians :alien, then you must profit-share with Reallusion.

In fact, this not a new concept. The only change that occured here from the "old" agreement to the new "agreement" is the word net sales, ready-for-market, and the stipulation of forfeit 20% of compensation if Reallusion is requested to make marketing materials for artist instead of generated by artist.

Permission

Lot's of clarification needed her. And this is eactly why we have this forum thread. 
Having our permission is not a content by content request. But say for instance, as with case with two of the most familiar sites, CoolCreators and Clone2Go, White Tiger online stores.  We ask that you have Reallusion's approval simply because we are trying to protect customers. I guess the best way is to explain, is with an example:

Evil-Store, who does not have Reallusion's permission. Creates content using our tools, and then says, "This is the greatest pack ever- the Clonebot Kcaz, it's totally awesome!" So, we unwittingly buy this pack, turns out we just installed the Trojan-Worm-Great-Balls-of-Fire-Death-Virus, which renders our wonderful super-duper desk top computer with that new-state of the art-super awesome 5 million GHrz Video Card into a mere oversized paper weight... <Gasp in Horror >

Clones2Go, White Tiger and CoolCreators do not pander such things. They offer content, and therefore, we say kudos to you, sirs and ma'ams. Those storefronts are not guranteed by Reallusion, but guaranteed by those said parties, but we know they are not trying to trick you into downloading malicious materials. However, as for quality, pricing standards, and other legal etc. etc. We do hold those storefronts accountable for the actions of their members. But, we never had any problem, and we really appreciate Clones2Go, White Tiger and CoolCreators and all of their efforts in promoting iClone, CrazyTalk and all other Reallusion products, they are our biggest fans, and we are their biggest fans!

You don't need to ask for permission for every content you create, but if you wish to sell it, then let us know, so we know you are not abusing our tools to create a Take-Over-The-World-Super-Virus. But if you wish to sell on the Clones2Go, CoolCreators, Amazon.com, Clonebot Zack's Awesome Store (I made that last one up...)
Then go for it! It's your content, your creation, do with it as you like. CoolCreators and Clones2Go has to be responsible to make sure their members selling content on their store are not doing anything bad, and check the quality, guarantee no viruses, or etc etc.

If you are selling content on a store not mentioned here, send me an email.
developer@reallusion.com

Sharing Shelf Space

What do you mean, your shelf isn't big enough?! Just kidding, we do share ours, its called Certified Content Developers.
Every member of CCD is viewed as their own company in our eyes. In fact, we promote that with the Commercialization Guide, be your own business. The reason is.... drum roll please...

If you have not noticed yet, the content store and developer center is slowly, but surely, changing. We are moving to a more open market for the content store. What does that mean? Well in a nutshell, it means the following (but of course not limited to the following):
CCD member can have these powers on the new content store (of the future):

• Customer Base control
• Subscriptions to their content and shelf space
• information channels to communicate your content
• updated information on market behavior
• managing your business opportunities
• access to multiple markets and storefronts
• allow comments and ratings of their goods
• email lists of their customers to share updates and new releases
• and more...

But to get from where we are now to where we want to go, takes a little change... Royalty-Free is the first, but crucial change. "Pardon our Dust"

Price discrepancy?!

I hope not! If you are selling packs at a cheaper price that what you have placed on Reallusion store, then you have committed a big "No-No", or what it's called in the legal world, arbitrage. With the agreement of permission from Reallusion to Developer, packs created to be sold on Reallusion, cannot be sold as is on their own, or other's store front for cheaper. Let's take a look at another example to clarify this point.

Clonebot Zack creates a pack of 5 clonebots, calls it 5-Bots, and places it on the Reallusion online store for $10 (in theory, $2 per robot character). If Zack then turns around and sells 5-Bots on a 3rd party site for $8
 or even for $10, then Zack has broken the developer agreement. If Zack broke the pack apart, and sold each robot individually, for $2 or less, Zack would have broken the agreement. If Zack sells the individual robots for $2.01, then Zack hs not broken the agreement, but Zack is playing with fire...

The moral of the story is, if you have content placed on the Reallusion content store, you cannot sell that exact pack for less or equal price on another site (You can't even change the name to Five-Bots and get away with it). You can sell invidual items of a pack, but not at a price less than the unit price of that content on Reallusion store front.

No storefront, as I am aware of, is doing this... if you are, please stop... nobody likes criminals and pirates. Well, Pirates of the Carribean were cool...

What Changed?!

The reality is, all the aforementioned concerns were also included in the "old" contract. Permission was required, arbitrage was bad, shelf space, and profit sharing was 50%. So... what changed?
Let me outline it below:

• Royalty Free- before Developers had a choice, "to be or not to be" Royalty Free, now, the choice is, if you want to be part of our store, then you must be royalty free.
• Ready-for-market- you have to have marketing materials of a high standard outlined in the Commericialization Guide
• 50% of net sales (it was always this way, but now we clearly state it)
• 20% forfeit of profit if we do the marketing for you (it was always this way, but now we clearly state it)

So I hope that clears up a few matters. But keep the good questions and concerns and what ever else you got coming. It's Monday, "I'll be here all week!"

 

 

Reallusion CloneBot

Helping you to develop, for everyone's benefit

Thanks.

One more point, ...

The Reallusion Submission Form still asks for "Commercial" versus "Noncommercial" use of our submission? Shouldn't the option disappear?

Thanks. 

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