Reallusion Forum / iClone / 3DXchange - Massive Model Generator / iClone2 Forum / [Archive] Opacity, hot spots, performance, other 3D support / Latest Posts

RE: [Archive] Opacity, hot spots, performance, other 3D support

ForumArchive — Thu, 11 Oct 2007 02:59:40 GMT

Kudos to RL and many thanks to Visconti for uoir invaluable help!

This tool really opens up the doors for expanding the capabilities of iClone

RE: [Archive] Opacity, hot spots, performance, other 3D support

ForumArchive — Thu, 11 Oct 2007 02:59:20 GMT

After a lot more testing I am even more impressed with this tool. The dummy works to keep things in scale but working between iClone and 3DXchange I find it no problem at all to resize and resave between the applications.

I have yet to have a texturing problem that didn't relate to the texture maps being at another location other than where the imported model was stored and the time saved by not having to retexture is a great advantage.

The only problems I've had are the ones I've mentioned in the previous post about extremly high poly models. The ones I have let run eventually export but iClone slows to a crawl using the model so its just too high a poly count, nothing to do with any errors on 3DXchange.

I've thrown a lot of models at this converter and it works great. Super easy to use too.

I have not encountered any problems to speak in my usage of this tool. For those that already have 3D libraries... this will rock.

RE: [Archive] Opacity, hot spots, performance, other 3D support

ForumArchive — Thu, 11 Oct 2007 02:58:53 GMT

Dear aknzrdude

Please be sure to open the dummy.vns as below, it can help you know the relative size. After exporting the file to iClone, its default size will be 100, and then you can adjust it more easily.

As to the Poser texture export problem, you can check if the file including the texture first, and then you should export it as .obj cause Poser don't support .3ds export with the texture.

Thanks
Visconti

RE: [Archive] Opacity, hot spots, performance, other 3D support

ForumArchive — Thu, 11 Oct 2007 02:58:06 GMT

3DXchange is an excellent tool. Little or no learning curve and simple interface. With the exception of some extremely high poly models it has converted everything I've thrown at it. No problem in texturing either. The worst thing I disliked about Poser to Max to iClone was the time spent retexturing certain models and this application knocked that out with no problem. Low poly models convert instantly with excellent texturing.

I have had to terminate the program several times but those involved the high poly count models that are hard to use in iClone anyway. I do believe the program would have eventually converted them but I did not wait it out.

So far I really like what I see on this... the more I use it the more I like it.

RE: [Archive] Opacity, hot spots, performance, other 3D support

ForumArchive — Thu, 11 Oct 2007 02:57:52 GMT

The transparency issue was related to multiple exports. When I tried a model in Milkshape using .png with transparency, all imported correctly into 3dexchange - no problems. Which made the whole job much easier.

Something I did not know about iClone that I just discovered however, is if I keyframe a prop and then merge that prop with another, the keyframe motion stays. This makes things VERY simple such as animating a car door opening/closing along with the whole car leaving and/or arriving. Pretty cool. Didn't know iClone had it in her.

So far milkshape and wings 3ds exports work well. Carrara and Blender are ill-behaved - also Hex 2. Poser 7 is behaved as well.

Thanks,

dh

RE: [Archive] Opacity, hot spots, performance, other 3D support

ForumArchive — Thu, 11 Oct 2007 02:57:39 GMT

The .png was in the same dir, but it went through blender and wings before I tried the import. I'll work on a .png based model in wings and export to .3ds to verify the .png works just fine. I'd love to get sketchup pro but at $495...well, not quite ready for that one since I have a lot of other modellers. I do have sketchup (google) for free and blender does import .kmz files (at least a dev version I have - the current version on blender.org doesn't have it). The problem is that blender 3ds export is about as broken as Carrara. Hence, export to .obj and import into wings for export to .3ds. Makes you WANT to buy sketchup pro! FYI...Carrara .obj exports seem to work just fine.

The door rotates correctly if I align the edge to scene root - so yes, that problem is quite fixed and in reality the chance of moving the prop within iClone is pretty high so you'd probably have to move all the props anyway. But, just a thought on the pivot point for nodes.

I didn't figure you could put opacity in the prog at this point...but I'll be looking forward to improvements in 3dexchange. It functions quite nicely as is.

One thing I did notice is one mouse focus issue. I can zoom in/out with the wheel when I initially load a model. If I click on the scale field and type in a number and then click in the 3d viewport, the focus stays in the field and subsequent wheel movements adjust the scale (or whatever was focused on). I thought in iClone when I clicked on the 3d view that refocused the mouse and allowed me to use the wheel for zoom.

dh

RE: [Archive] Opacity, hot spots, performance, other 3D support

ForumArchive — Thu, 11 Oct 2007 02:57:24 GMT

thanks for the pointers -
however on my version of iclone (2.0) the max scale setting is 10,000 so cannot achieve the 25-30k value stated here

RE: [Archive] Opacity, hot spots, performance, other 3D support

ForumArchive — Thu, 11 Oct 2007 02:57:09 GMT

dear dh216832,

As for the PNG map, 3DXchange will treat them as two maps - diffuse and opacity map. It means it carrys the diffuse map and transparency data into iClone. We tested the PNG export from SketchUp Pro. It works perfectly. Please try place those maps in the same model folder and load again into 3DXchange.

Carrara 3DS export also crash 3D Studio Max, we doubt they implement it correctly. thank you for the help to test further whether obj is the best route.

If you make the door align it's edge to the scene root, suppose you can key frame animate the door open/close. Can you?

Thanks for many great suggestions, we also consider to make 3DXchange a full material editor with all possible texturing features to mesh node such as transparency, but I am afraid it will not be in this coming May release.

RE: [Archive] Opacity, hot spots, performance, other 3D support

ForumArchive — Thu, 11 Oct 2007 02:56:57 GMT

3DExchange will try find texture first in the same source model folder, please place those exported texture in the same folder if your 3D software not doing so when export model. Unfortunately Poser scatters textures in many Poser sub-folders, so you need to collect them manually.

3D model mostly contains correct UV assignment, for those untextured models in 3DXchange, you may texture them back in iClone program if you can locate the source texture.

Another trick for you, OBJ and MTL is in ASCII format, so you can find JPG or BMP in the text string to reveal the texture file name.

Hope those tricks can help!

RE: [Archive] Opacity, hot spots, performance, other 3D support

ForumArchive — Thu, 11 Oct 2007 02:56:44 GMT

Dear aknzrdude,

we have noticed the same problem of extremely small scale export from Poser model, we found 25000-30000 is the best scale value. We will prompt users in the final release when encounter extremely small object (those almost invisible), and auto scale to a foot ball size model for easier viewing.

As you requested, we will implement the time bar to prompt users it's still in process, and add immediate response to Esc key if users want to terminate the long conversion procedure.

thank you for your great input!!! :)

RE: [Archive] Opacity, hot spots, performance, other 3D support

ForumArchive — Thu, 11 Oct 2007 02:56:32 GMT

first of all - thanks for the opportunity to beta test - it is a great tool with tons of potential

haven't drilled down deep enough yet but
- my first impression - very easy to use,

Imported objects from Poser and truespace (exported as 3ds)- the objects imported well, texture did not carry though - and i had to resize them 1000 in 3D exchange - export took some time for hte bigger objects with larger file size - might be helpful to have a time bar just to show it is still crunching away - coz a ew times i thought it hung on me.

Import to iclone was ok except for one thing - - if they are exported as accessories, they are very small and even the max resize 10,000 did not help. However if i first export them from 3d exchange as a prop, i resize them as props then import as accessory, the size can be adjsuted to more acceptable levels

so that's my feedback for now - more to come...

RE: [Archive] Opacity, hot spots, performance, other 3D support

ForumArchive — Thu, 11 Oct 2007 02:56:17 GMT

The UV map was a .png when I exported from Blender to .obj and into Wings (followed by export to .3ds). It could have been lost in translation somewhere in there as well. I'll work on that example and another one and send to you when I have access to my home computer. I'd already taken your advice and exported the node with transparency individually. Worked like a charm, just looking for a shortcut.

Okay, now I get the rotation for the door - thanks, that solved my problem. Wasn't apparent to me. Perhaps though, in some dot release of 3dexchange you could allow us to actually move the rotation point of the node instead of aligning the node to the center (or ground). So, I have 4 walls, one with a door, 1 with a window. In the current implementation, I export the walls without the window and door (everything aligned to scene root). Then I unselect the walls, select the door, align the edge to scene root and export. Same for the window. When assembling in iClone this means I have to move the door and window back into position. How about, instead, I select the 4 walls (everything aligned to scene root) and export. Then unselect the walls, select the door and move the Scene root to the door edge and export. Same for the window. Then when I add these props to my scene they are already in place. Or, wouldn't it work that way since I'm changing scene root anyway? Perhaps a node root?

Yes, I tried a 50,000 poly model and it worked just fine, but there's no doubt, low-poly is the way to go. I did notice as well that untextured, the performance was just fine. I would assume our texture size has a bit to do with it as well.

Thanks,

dh

RE: [Archive] Opacity, hot spots, performance, other 3D support

ForumArchive — Thu, 11 Oct 2007 02:56:02 GMT

Thanks for your time to post the first test experience. Please send us the model that you can not see transparencies, we might be able to provide you some clue how to resolve it. Suppose this program can deal with alpha material and PNG texture.

One trick to make individual node with different texturing effect such as transparency is to export only the selected node to iClone and opacity texture it in iClone, eg. window, and then inverse select other nodes, export and Merge them with the new textured node in iClone.

To set the pivot for rotation, simply load the door into 3DXchange, align it's edge (not center) to the scene root, and export it back to iClone, thus the door will rotate around the edge. Now we set default scene root with object on the gound, you can lower the object to align the center of the object to the scene root, then you can rotate the object with it's weight center as pivot. We will make this new UI to make pivot adjustment easier in the final release, such as align to ground, align to center.

For large polygon models, they greatly impact the iClone real-time pixel shader because multi-pass rendering, you may try press CTRL-F1 to toggle back to Quick Shader for faster performance. We highly suggest users only import models less then 3000 polygon for iclone scene and props. New shader will speed up the rendering in next iClone3 releaese schedule in 2008 Q1.

Always try different export setting for different softwares, companies implement export function always have some slightest difference, sometimes obj works, sometimes 3ds works better. We will post our testing record on several 3D software and provide best route for model export for iClone.

Welcome to the iClone 3DXchange journey!

[Archive] Opacity, hot spots, performance, other 3D support

ForumArchive — Thu, 11 Oct 2007 02:55:45 GMT

Like the tool a whole lot so far. Thank you for the 3d links. Playing around with a model with transparencies, the opacity does not translate during import. Possibly because the UV map is all one image so perhaps that makes it difficult in translation? Anyway, since the "part" shows up in the node structure, it is simple to export separately, adjust opacity in iClone and merge the prop back together. If possible, in addition to adjusting not only the color, specular highlight and shininess of a node, we could adjust the transparency of a node, that'd save some time. There could be models where you cannot export the part needing opacity adjustment.

Imagine for a sec I have a model with a door. I export the main model and then export the door. I use these two props in a scene where I will keyframe the door opening. Unfortunately, the rotation point is based upon the center(?) of the original model so it doesn't work so well. Being able to define that hot spot, or rotation point for a node would be great. Sure I can keyframe around it (and have) but I can ask can't I? LOL.

Imported a 5000 vertice model with a single UV map. 3d view manipulation was quite slow compared to that model inside iClone - which was great. I'm hoping the lag is in process to improve?

3DS imports from Wings consistently works. Blender and Carrara exports of 3DS models usually end with a program termination, so I end up exporting as .obj and importing to wings for export to 3DS. Will there be an official "we've tested and support this software for 3DS import" list? I'd like to trouble shoot either of these two pieces of software for 3DS export. Is there a spec you're working from for the 3DS import? Perhaps I can tweak the export.

Thanks,

dh