Reallusion Forum / iClone / Wishful Features – Craft your dream tool / wanted: G6 / Latest Posts

RE: wanted: G6

elektron2kim — Fri, 15 Jun 2012 21:27:11 GMT

:w00t:

I would sculpt some myself if I wasn't happy already. But in regards to my skills and lack of software the developers are some lightyears ahead, so if you want - you can most likely ask one to do the job for you.

RE: wanted: G6

sayyidilyas — Fri, 15 Jun 2012 18:23:03 GMT

Nice topic.
It would be really nice if there were faces that had a lot more polygons so that more detail could be added to it if we wanted to change the facial features.
Is there something like that already available where the heads have more polygons while still allowing you to use it like any other G5 head?

RE: wanted: G6

sw00000p — Sun, 04 Mar 2012 12:48:10 GMT

When RL finishes 64 bit iClone....
You can switch-out 8 bit to 16 bit... and Look-Out!:w00t:
iClone gonna have quite a hitch in her "Get-Along!":P

Yep!

RE: wanted: G6

sw00000p — Sun, 04 Mar 2012 12:32:37 GMT

[quote][b]animagic (3/1/2012)[/b][hr]Displacement maps would be a cool addition to iClone.[/quote]

You could embed Displacement into the "Normal Bump". Add a specular "Level map"... (Not Color) and let the optical illusion occur naturally! (On Low to Mid Poly Models) yields Excellent Resutls! & Animate In Real Time!

I enjoy reading your ideas along with Vit3D!:D

Mid-Range characters are my choice!

RE: wanted: G6

Peter (RL) — Sun, 04 Mar 2012 11:47:04 GMT

I think we have to remember that although computers are getting more powerful and graphics capabilities getting higher, not every user has one of these new powerful systems.

Reallusion needs to make iClone available to the widest user base possible and this means certain compromises need to be made to choose a "happy medium" for all.

While of course many users systems could cope with much higher poly models but for the reasons above there still has to be limits. It is for the benefit of all users to make the available avatars look better in their renders and this can still be achieved without greatly increasing the avatars poly count. Future iClone upgrades will show this for sure.

RE: wanted: G6

Vit3D — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 01:31:53 GMT

Paumanok West, Topogun excellent and not very expansive program and I'm using it a lot in my pipeline (especially for creating topology for character bases).
In addition to nice features for topology construction it can generate rather good quality Displacement, Normal Bump and Ambient occlusion maps ;)
By my opinion this pogram can be classified as "must have" for 3D modelers who works with low and middle poly.

RE: wanted: G6

animagic — Thu, 01 Mar 2012 15:59:23 GMT

Displacement maps would be a cool addition to iClone.

RE: wanted: G6

Paumanok West — Thu, 01 Mar 2012 14:34:27 GMT

Thanks for the info, folks. What you say seems to make sense. I looked at Topogun and found there is [url=http://www.digitaltutors.com/11/training.php?pid=623]video training[/url] for it.

It would be nice if Reallusion would chime in right now to give their view on this pipeline.

RE: wanted: G6

Vit3D — Thu, 01 Mar 2012 06:00:01 GMT

I already told earlier that I'm not big fan of hi-poly models (especially for iClone). It's not because hi-poly hard to make or rig, not at all. For me it's much easy to create hi-poly model that middle poly model with well balanced topology. Hi-poly rigging not a problem too -- You can always transfer rigging from middle to hi-poly using Skin Wrap in 3ds Max. I always use hi-poly in my pipeline, but they are not final product for animation -- because it's not necessary. There are excellent modern visualization methods like displacement and tessellation and can say that currently even in professional video production hi-poly used very seldom -- mostly it's middle (or middle-to-hi) models with perfect very hi-resolution displacement maps.

I'd like to see smooth professional render quality in iClone too. But it's not necessary to increase poly counter for this and also not necessary to have such hi-quality results in real time -- this quality required for final production only.
So by my opinion further iClone render quality improvement can be reached by using external rendering plug-ins (not real time) with support of displacement or tessellation and maybe even full ray tracing (like Mental Ray for 3ds Max). Think this combination raised iClone at very hi professional level ;)

RE: wanted: G6

sw00000p — Thu, 01 Mar 2012 02:16:36 GMT

[quote][b]Paumanok West (2/28/2012)[/b][hr][quote][b]animagic (2/28/2012)[/b][hr]As to the higher polycount, it is probably possible to do a lot by selectively increasing the polycount in areas where details matter such as hands and face.[/quote]

Sounds good to me... but just for the record, I should point out that I use 3DXChange4 to export the avatar to ZBrush as body segments (Hands, Shoes, Upper, etc). 3DXChange4 does a sanity check on the vertex counts and won't let you modify them.

To be clear, the kind of thing you mention could only be done in 3ds Max.[/quote]

PW,

As proven modeling techniques vary...
High poly-counts in iClone produces... Much Longer Renders!
No need to sacrifice render-times by drastically increasing poly-counts!

As you've mentioned TopoGun, in the past...
One could simply add a few more "Edge Loops" around the joints, being extremely careful NOT to disturb the "Connection Sets!" (The Edge of Mesh)

Also: There's always free "Blender" to achieve the desired results!

Tip:
Are you aware of the "Normal Bump Mapping" technique!
The "Cage" forces the low-res vertices to adhere to the high-res verts!
Simular to "Skin Wrap"...

iClone utilizes the "Normal Bump" with added "Edge Loops" Very Well!

Consider adding strategically placed "Edge Loops" and let the Normal Bump do the rest!

Result: Mesh deforms more naturally and render-time isn't hindered drastically!

You Could Do This In... BLENDER! FREE!

RE: wanted: G6

animagic — Wed, 29 Feb 2012 19:38:27 GMT

What I meant was that this could be an approach to be taken for the development of new avatars by RL or the 3rd party developers, rather than say simply multiplying the polycount by a fixed number in all areas. I know it's currently not possible for mere mortals to change the number of polys in the mesh...

RE: wanted: G6

W.VEEKE — Wed, 29 Feb 2012 16:11:59 GMT

Pau,

The Toy does not look really higpoly to me. If I understand right you like the hands and arms, what about the rest of the body. You want also the Toys feet and body, or you want a new your character with clothes and all.

And yes we all start lowpoly(if we not use a excisting template/or raw start). but then we all look were the prop/character is in balance with the outcome,highpoly or very good textures can do the trick. But in many cases the complex animations (of an animal for instances) gets better results when you skin it with more polygons. So I agree it depends on the workflow and on how much details you want to get from the mesh and not from the bumpmaps. And of course what performance you want. If you need a mass , please keep the polys as low as possible.

RE: wanted: G6

namunger — Wed, 29 Feb 2012 15:32:30 GMT

[quote][b]Paumanok West (2/28/2012)[/b]3DXChange4 does a sanity check...[/quote]
Yikes, I suspect that's a test few of us would pass. :P

RE: wanted: G6

Paumanok West — Wed, 29 Feb 2012 10:02:27 GMT

[quote][b]Peter (RL) (2/29/2012)[/b]I have just seen a tear in Chuck's eye. He can't believe you want tomake him redundant already. :w00t:[/quote]

Just make sure it's a tear and not the glint of a gun-sight... :crazy:

RE: wanted: G6

Peter (RL) — Wed, 29 Feb 2012 09:35:57 GMT

[quote][b]Paumanok West (2/28/2012)[/b][hr]That's right, greedy iClone users want even more from Reallusion.

Sooner or later, there will be a 64-bit version of iClone, and as far as I know, GPUs are still getting more powerful.

So how about a significant upgrade in poly count for another generation of characters?

Even if this required rendering that character in isolation and exporting as popVideo or alpha PNGs, it would be worth it to some of us--certainly to me. ;)[/quote]

I have just seen a tear in Chuck's eye. He can't believe you want to make him redundant already. :w00t:

RE: wanted: G6

Paumanok West — Tue, 28 Feb 2012 22:30:29 GMT

[quote][b]animagic (2/28/2012)[/b][hr]As to the higher polycount, it is probably possible to do a lot by selectively increasing the polycount in areas where details matter such as hands and face.[/quote]

Sounds good to me... but just for the record, I should point out that I use 3DXChange4 to export the avatar to ZBrush as body segments (Hands, Shoes, Upper, etc). 3DXChange4 does a sanity check on the vertex counts and won't let you modify them.

To be clear, the kind of thing you mention could only be done in 3ds Max.

RE: wanted: G6

animagic — Tue, 28 Feb 2012 22:04:31 GMT

As to the higher polycount, it is probably possible to do a lot by selectively increasing the polycount in areas where details matter such as hands and face.

RE: wanted: G6

animagic — Tue, 28 Feb 2012 21:58:34 GMT

[quote][b]W.VEEKE (2/28/2012)[/b][hr]In dutch we say: you never know how a rabbit catch a cow[/quote]

Mmm, I remember this as the opposite: how a cow catches a rabbit (hoe een koe een haas vangt)... :ermm:

RE: wanted: G6

Paumanok West — Tue, 28 Feb 2012 16:42:16 GMT

[quote][b]W.VEEKE (2/28/2012)[/b][hr]Paul,
Tell us what you need. A high poly character look like? Please give a litlle more details, in principe a high poly character is much easier to built then a low poly one(i know some here will not agree with this).

In dutch we say: you never know how a rabbit catch a cow

a blind man may sometimes hit the crow[/quote]

Hey Wil, [url=http://generalpicture.com/rl/wwpaw.jpg]here's an example[/url] that illustrates the current gap between my character and the kind of result I would like to achieve. Note that using iClone's default render highlights the imperfections in my model more than my toon renders.

Compare the Reallusion hands that I modified with the powerful, stylized hands on the toy. Also note the curvy smoothness on the toy muscles.

By the way, I have previously pointed out that the hands on the toy represent the ideal hands for a character that uses Reallusion's "Mr Thin" as a foundation.

RE: wanted: G6

Sen — Tue, 28 Feb 2012 15:56:39 GMT

Yes , I think there are great developper who can make high poly character and very good high poly . I think Wil , Mike , Bigboss and Vitaly , can make this .

Pau have very good suggestion ;) .

[quote]i know some here will not agree with this
[/quote]

:P , yes me , but depend how you build your workflow and how you work .
For me , start with low poly and increase polycount . But it's perhaps your workflow Wil ;) .
I don't know .
A simple thing is low polycount is better for skinning , but you can work a skinning with low poly and increase after .

RE: wanted: G6

W.VEEKE — Tue, 28 Feb 2012 15:40:49 GMT

Paul,
Tell us what you need. A high poly character look like? Please give a litlle more details, in principe a high poly character is much easier to built then a low poly one(i know some here will not agree with this).

In dutch we say: you never know how a rabbit catch a cow

a blind man may sometimes hit the crow

wanted: G6

Paumanok West — Tue, 28 Feb 2012 11:15:33 GMT

That's right, greedy iClone users want even more from Reallusion.

Sooner or later, there will be a 64-bit version of iClone, and as far as I know, GPUs are still getting more powerful.

So how about a significant upgrade in poly count for another generation of characters?

Even if this required rendering that character in isolation and exporting as popVideo or alpha PNGs, it would be worth it to some of us--certainly to me. ;)